CREW SAFETY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. I have three amazing guests today. I have Jim Digby. He is the president and co-founder of the Event Safety Alliance. I have Clay Carter. He's a technical director for the Invnt group, and I have Teresa Beardsley. She is the president, owner, founder of Safety Compliance Services. Everyone, welcome to the show today. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Well, The Road Ahead podcast today is dedicated to subject that's near and dear to all of our hearts as we go back to doing live and studio environments. It's the idea of having a safe crew, a crew that is Covid free and making sure we execute. And that's what people pay us to do. And you know, today we're going to talk about how do we protect the crew, what do we do in the form of testing, you know, how do we overcome this Covid obstacle? And, you know, and these are the kind of subject matter we're going to talk about. So I'm going to throw the first question to Jim. And Jim, I think you're freshly back from overseas on some adventure in Saudi Arabia when doing a live or virtual event today, what precautions do we have to exercise, you know, to protect the crew for Covid? What are good practices? If I were going to tell the audience, what's the best practice? What would you suggest? Oh gosh, we're still not out of this, are we? You know, we we iterated 4 or 5 different versions of our Covid policy for this latest mega festival that we produced in Saudi. And in each iteration, the same general rules apply. You know, mask wearing is the best defense. Washing the hands or sterilizing the hands is the second best defense, maintaining distance or being outside whenever possible. All of those things and of course being vaccinated, all of those things add up to, you know, in this instance, it took us five pages to write that policy, but the additional context was built around what do we do if we have a positive and how do we isolate, and how do we care for those who are isolated? And what challenges does that bring in resilience and building the event? So I think I think I'm here to say it's all the same stuff we said in March of 2020. Those best practices remain true. And vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. Got it. Okay, I'm throwing the question to Teresa and Teresa's company does Covid testing. So maybe you could enlighten us as to what you find are best practices. Yeah. So I mean, there are kind of two problems. There's testing, which is really information given to you at a certain time. Right. So there's PCR testing it, antigen testing, rapid PCR testing, that kind of thing. It really just tells you, you know, it's really more helpful in the screening process and throughout a work period. It doesn't protect you from anything. So then the protective prog is the PPE, the distancing. That stuff really, really works. You know, sanitizing, keeping clean, not touching your eyes, nose or mouth and that kind of thing. So I would say that, you know, testing is half of it. And then the other half is like, you know, the other protective thing is getting vaccinated. That is so important. And, you know, making sure that you're keeping up with your boosters, you know, if you haven't had a shot in six months, you know, science says that, you know, you should probably get that in order to remain protected because the data says that even the vaccines are becoming a little bit less effective over time. And that's because we, you know, we're still learning about this virus. You know, Teresa, it's interesting on the news, you hear even people that are vaccinated are catching the latest strain. So I don't know. You know, Jim raises his hand as one of the participants. You know, the idea is that we can we can do testing. But testing is just a quick moment, a snippet of time. And I could be tested at 10 a.m. today and 11 a.m. I can turn in positive. Exactly. And so it's not really any other than some sense of where we stood at every morning of every day. That describes my getting out of the last country I was in, you know, needing that fit to fly negative test. I woke the morning of my flight, which was in an overnight flight, and did a rapid test and and tested positive, albeit faint, line, and then eight hours later took the PCR test for the fit to fly accommodation. And that was negative. Thank the Lord I was able to get home. So it is a moment in time that the test is only telling us about that moment you took it and nothing more. Okay, I'm throwing this to Clay now. Clay, you have all types of crews, whether they're doing virtual, doing live, and you have your potpourri of shows, you know, what is the precautions that you recommend or you're exercising for Covid protocol and whether it's been mentioned or in addition to I mean, most everything's been been mentioned, but the the, the difficulty on implementation on show site is that every client seems to have a little bit of a different opinion about what their protocols are. So we as an industry, I think we've kind of set the bar as high as we can as far as, you know, testing before you travel and then, you know, the social distancing. So, you know, all of our backstage setups are just taking more real estate. The one that that we learned on, on just a show a couple of weeks ago was having when you break up your local crews to separate and do tasks is to separate them into smaller groups. Obviously, you know, we're used to doing everything fast and furious and moving in a in a pack of, you know, sometimes 6 or 8 guys. It it seemed, you know, those people are all within six feet of each other. So we made a specific, you know, emphasis on, on breaking that those groups up. But, you know, washing hands, social distancing masks all the time. You know, for, for us and for me personally, you almost have to assume that the person standing across from you has Covid and you need to protect yourself from that person and that germ. So if everybody kind of has that mindset, then it's it's everybody protect yourself. You know, that is such an interesting thing. You just said, Clay. Everyone has it. Everyone you look at, even though they're smiling and they look healthy and they have no symptoms, they all have it. So, so it's really a responsibility thing. On the onus is on each individual as much as it is on the production or on the, on the, you know, the end client. It's it's literally on every, every person in the building. So, so if I'm a technician and I'm working on one of your shows, then and I decide to be lax about it, I'm just exposing myself to potentially not being able to work. Correct. That is an interesting thing, literally to being sent home and having to be replaced. So do you know what's interesting? We typically backstage there'd be crew food services where we all either go to the are you finding having to go to box lunches or, or not have things where we handle like common food and utensil items? Yes. Yeah. There have been that's there's kind of two choices out there right now. I mean you're you're serve yourself buffets are, you know, are off off limits completely. So it's either pick up a box lunch and here's your utensils in a in a baggie, or there's a line of servers on the other side of the table. And you tell them what they want, what you want, and they put it on your plate. So there are still buffets, but it's but it's more labor intensive on the caterer side. So I'm sure there's, you know, an end cost to that. But you know, obviously we can't be passing a utensil. You know, whatever it is you're using to grab the bread, you can't just put it back and have the next person grab it. So, Clay, I have one follow up question with you on this. How much discussion goes in with the client, like each client a little different. And how does that conversation go? You know, what protocols do we want to have, you know, what do you want to do to protect the crew or is it is stuff? Basically, you recommend best practices and say, this is what we think is the right approach, right? Well, first of all, most of those conversations don't center around crew. They center around the presenters and the executives that are coming to the show. And and there's a lot of, of of different levels depending on, you know, what the outbreak is doing in the local area where the headquarters is, what you know, what the the local protocols are, wherever the show is going to be. So there's a there's a minefield to work your way through on every show. But, you know, typically if, if you if you follow the same protocol that you're following for the presenters because you're going to have to do that once they show up for rehearsals anyway. So we just basically take those protocols and back them out from the very first minute that we start to unload the very first truck and follow those same protocols all the way at the end. Got it. So, Jim, can you tell me a little bit about how the Event Safety Alliance developed protocols, the five pages, as you said, and how they've evolved in the last year or two? I hate to say it. I can't believe I've said year or two. It just seems like this won't go away. Yeah, yeah. Let me let me make a slight correction there. That five pages was relating to the project I was on and the protocols we developed for that project, the ESA, Steve Adelman and a bunch of smart people got together in April, I think, of 20 and released what was then 30 odd pages of of Covid protocol advice with, with the thought that people were going to try, you know, people were attempting to get back into the gig at that time, and we were trying to advocate for, okay, if we're going to do this, let's be super careful about it, because we don't want to set the industry even further back. I think it only took six months before we had a new iteration. That first iteration included the early findings of Covid, which were which, many of which were rooted in contact and the and the disease staying on surfaces longer than we later discovered. So I think when the version two came out, it was it played down the the surface contact as a concern at that point. Remember, in the early days, we were sterilizing everything, we were wiping down everything. And then it played, you know, played back to masking, social distancing, vaccine, you know, outside as much as possible. And then there was a third iteration that we worked on with Niva and some other groups, which even condensed that even further to make it, you know, easy to ingest for a club owner or or anyone out there on the street, rather than our rather lengthy overview of it, we're still of the position that the same rules still apply. We're not through this yet. The good news is, you know, the vaccines are working. There's over 10 billion vaccines administered in the world right now, and there's very few negative outcomes from the vaccines being administered. So we just got to keep trudging. We've got to keep trying to minimize the impact of Covid on the event space by using these very easy tools. We've already seen people lose their lives for denying the existence of these tools or the vaccine who are in our sphere, in our circles. What do you say, Jim? When someone says, I've had Covid, I don't need to get vaccinated or, you know, or you hear these kind of crazy kind of responses because the media accentuates these positions. Yeah, I mean, look, it's not for me to dictate someone's bias by any means, but I can tell you my personal journey, which is I'm three times Pfizer vaccinated and no less than ten days ago had Covid. I'm grateful that I'm vaccinated and had Covid because now I'm four times vaccinated, if you will. And you know, I've got a good as Theresa said to my, my immunology probably is good for the next 90 days because I've had it on top of these other vaccines. But, you know, we're our work environment doesn't have any room for folks who are anti-vaxxers, if you will. You know, the country won't let you in in the place where I'm working now, you've got to be vaccinated. And why risk the rest of the operation? Why risk your colleagues and your peers and potentially the event, whatever it might be, by by circumventing vaccines and the right thing to do? That's a really interesting thought. If you're not vaccinated, it's really a hard thing to be working in our industry, our industry, really. It's about people vaccinating and being part of the solution versus being part of the problem. That's kind of the overarching thought. Theresa, could you tell me, are you finding people are hiring your services to where you're doing testing daily, hourly, weekly, or how does it work for your typical production client and you work on film and television and live events? Maybe you could take me through what what experiencing you're having now for your customer demand. And you're based out in LA? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So it actually it kind of varies. Most of my clients are amazing, and they really go the extra mile to ensure that there's testing available to their crew members on a daily basis. If not, you know, we typically do a lot of union jobs, right? So that's, you know, testing three times a week. They've upped their zone B testing to, you know, twice a week typically. And then, you know, daily, you know, antigen testing as well. Because here's the other thing. Again we don't know enough about this disease or this virus to say to say, you know, this is really how it's worth. You know, the CDC has changed its mind of so many times, right? It's like now it says, you know, you you isolate for five days if you're infected, but we're fine, you know? But I just met somebody who day six was, you know, still, you know, positive. Right. So you have to keep making sure that you're, you're testing for all of this stuff. You're you're taking the appropriate time. You know, these infections last for ten days. You can't I mean, I would say you can't let anybody in, you know, if if they've had it within 14 days. Right. Like you don't want to risk infection. So so so so so let me ask you a follow up question. Do all these tests these antigen the Rapids do they pick up on I have heard via our lovely news media. And you can't believe anything you hear in the news. For whatever reason. It doesn't matter what network do they pick up on or some of the rapids do not. So okay, there are very variations of rapid antigen testing and what rapid antigens do as opposed to a PCR test is they tell you if you are infectious or contagious in the moment, the exact moment that you take the test like that, from that time that the sample was taken, that is the only period of time where as a PCR test basically shows what is going to develop in your cellular structure for the next 72 hours. So with some antigens, there is a pallet to antigen testing. And the more medical grade like Lucia's are amazing. Those are PCR, but you still get a result in a 30 minutes. Those are 75 bucks. You can buy them on Amazon. There's you know, we use a medical grade rapid antigen. Abbott has a really good one. That's the business now. Yeah but but do they all for the most part do they they catch Omicron or. No. So yes, for the most part with some exceptions I'm sure you could buy something on Amazon that wouldn't catch it. And you have to be aware of of what you're buying. I would think some of these tests come from China, so I'm not sure I would buy into that approach. Okay, we're moving on to the next thing. Hey, hey, I think it might be important to comment on the on the CDC changing their mind thing. I think I think that the the actuality is they're not changing their mind as much as their due respect, as much as they are following the latest understanding of what's happening with the virus and the mutations and the virus. So that that most recent switch from ten days to five days, or whatever the numbers were, is actually driven by statistical data showing how long you are infectious after your day one. And the reason that they were adjusting their timeline was to try to keep up with obviously all the crashing businesses and everything else, and the science that stated that you were no longer infectious, by and large, the majority no longer infectious after so many days, which I think is why the shift to five not so much about changing their mind about following the science. Right? Right. That's absolutely true. Absolutely true. But we are still finding people positive after five days for sure. It was me. I was definitely there, but I don't know whether or not I was contagious. After five days, right. My viral load may have come down. So to the point where that contagion might not have been the threat. Okay, we're moving this question on to Clay. Clay, we've got a crew member. It could be a girl, a guy who's shown a positive result. You're on day three of your show. You're let's just say you're on your rehearsals or you're in first day of show. Might I have a it's a two fold question. What do you do with that crew person? And the second part of the question is do you have any spare crew like we have show coming up here in our studio for three weeks, and they are literally bringing in spare crew members to be isolated from the rest of the crew to backfill positions in the event someone has a positive result. So I'm curious what your thought is. First, I'm a crew member and I've turned a positive result, so I've got to go whatever your strategy is. And then the second one is, do you bring on extra people just in case, or do you bring them on after something that's happened? Well, I think obviously I think the first step is you test everybody else that's been near them in the backstage because we're obviously, you know, we've got close proximity, proximity to each other. Fortunately, that hasn't happened yet. I would actually have to look for guidance from, you know, the people I report to as far as how to react. Obviously, you know, the person can't be backstage anymore. So if they've reported to work, you'd have to turn them around, I would assume, send them back to the hotel and have them quarantine for, you know, at least five days before they could even get on an airplane and travel home. As for replacement crew, that is that is that's tricky. We actually had a show last month that the one the assistant stage manager actually tested positive before she traveled. So she she was replaced. And there was they actually brought in an additional audio engineer, A1 and an additional video switcher, and let's see. And an additional stage manager just as backup to be on property. If either of those three key positions tested positive and had to leave. So so the strategy is to engage on some backup crew, correct. Because you want to be prepared for anything. And obviously a show is programed and knowing the cues and stuff, you need someone who can fill into that kind of driver seat if need be. Exactly. And you don't necessarily have, you know, people with those, you know, extra people on on a typical show crew that can move from one seat to another. There are multi-talented people. There's people that have, you know, several different skill sets in the backstage, but not certainly, you know, everybody's got their expertise in their particular job and we're not interchangeable. So yeah, it's it's really tricky to know where to stop that process as well is, you know, because, you know, there's there's other people that could bring the show to a grinding halt as other than just those three, if the talent gets or the like, the leadership who's giving the presentation. There's a couple of variables. So this question is to Jim. Jim, I have a show coming up in the beginning of March where the client has said I need a fully boosted crew. So I know most people that I know that are in our industry have been vaccinated. I would say probably the majority of people that I know may or may not be boosted. And what do you do when a client says, I need a fully boosted crew? Is that, like much tougher to achieve that than it is just a vaccinated crew, so to speak? I don't think so. I think, you know, the call goes out for a fully boosted crew. I think it's basically that easy. Right? And if some of your key players are not fully boosted you if you've got the two weeks, I think Theresa, it's two weeks after the shot that the booster is full. Right, right. So just to clarify, so it's two weeks after your final shot of the regular vaccine regimen, and then you should be boosted within two months of getting a J and J. Or six months of getting your regular Pfizer or Moderna. So if I had that, if I had that leeway in time, then last I, you know, I'd offer them the opportunity. If you go get your shot now, you can be on the team, you know, in two weeks. But it's at this point in time, it's, you know, survival of those who are doing the right thing. And the client requires the booster. We as a team require the booster. I, I don't know what the problem is with getting the booster. You know, it's interesting. It's it's one of those things you would think if you are going to be part of the solution, getting a boosted would just be something you just do. Everybody goes back to work. But I like being here on Earth. Oh, you mean you mean living? Surviving? I am completely on board. I got, you know, most people that I would think it's a smart decision. If you're working in our industry in any technical capacity, you're going to be on show site. When someone says to you a definition, I need to be fully vaccinated. There's an upcoming Super Bowl, and we have activities and we're working on that project. They say you need to be completely vaccinated. But in the requirements that I were reading, it doesn't have the requirements of boosted. I think that's like the the next level of of precautions that a client would take to make sure they have a good show, you know, do you, do you think the same way I you know, I can remember touring early, early, you know, early 90s, late 80s, you had to carry a vaccine card, you had to have yellow fever. You had to you know, this is not new. The idea of getting vaccinated and carrying a vaccine card, you do that to maintain your health and the health of those around you. I fully boosted is where the science has taken us. Then fully boosted it is, as far as I'm concerned, interesting. I was going to tell you, I have been to Africa a few times and I have yellow fever shots specifically because I don't ever want to get yellow fever. It doesn't sound like a fun project there to have. It's 10 or 11 different regimens that you have to have before you can. Yeah, there's follow up shots. Oh yeah. For sure. Teresa. Covid safety officers, are you interacting with them regularly. Are you finding them on show site a dedicated crew position. It got really popular about a year ago. Then as as we've you know, we Covid started to go away before the Delta wave. Then the Covid safety officer people were like, oh, we don't have to worry about it. As soon as the Delta wave came on, then that became popular again. Are you interacting in your testing business with those type of positions? Oh, absolutely. And actually, that's the other prong of our business, is staffing these professionals for shows. Because the other thing is, you want to be able to have people who have a medical understanding on your set. You want to have people who can contact trace, who understand privacy laws and HIPAA, that kind of thing. You want to have people who are able to educate you and explain things to you. I would say that we absolutely are. But, you know, and it depends on the show. So I've come in just doing testing or I've come in and helped to staff or, you know, worked in specialized roles with companies. And, you know, I have to say, like there's a couple of different ways like most like environmental health and safety departments are pretty great about, you know, about keeping this role and having people who are really wonderful be in these roles. But then there are other companies who are just who don't take it as seriously. Right? And they go, you know, we're just going to hire Covid PA to kind of, you know, you know, take on this role. So I mean, companies do it very differently. And it depends on the culture. You know, it's interesting you we have to take this kind of what Clay said. If you assume everyone has it and you're protecting yourself, that is the best practice. That's like a tweet, Clay, that, that, that's that's like wisdom that you're transmitting to all those that are listening today. I want to ask my last question, and then I'll start with Clay. Do you think we're going to be dealing with this for the rest of 22? And what advice could you share with anyone? From all the things we discussed as far as keeping crews safe, I'm afraid we are going to be dealing with some, you know, some impact from of Covid for the rest of this year, hopefully not much longer than that. But you know, we've been saying that for two years now. You know, as far as crews, you know, protecting themselves, that, you know, that the again, the minefield that we're walking through is that there is not a standard practice, there are best practices, but every single show seems to have a different protocol. So, you know, working through those, you know, allowing extra time for that, allowing extra time on show site in when you're building your schedules because it takes longer to get crews in the door when we're doing testing. And even if it's just temperature checks and signing, you know, there's a there's the space component that's affecting every show we do. And then again, like I said, time and time and distance, those are the keys. I am in distance. Got it. And Jim, your thoughts first. We'll be dealing with this for the rest of 2022. And what what's the best advice you'd give to anyone listening? I fear that we are dealing with this for 22 and likely beyond. I know from having lived in Japan for a short period of time that, you know, mask wearing as a cultural component of, you know, looking after your neighbors when you don't feel well is just a constant state of being. It's been like that for years in Japan. Why not? Sure why we can embrace that idea that if we're not feeling well, we're removing ourselves from the herd so we don't cause further infection on the herd? I think we're dealing with it for a while. I think we have the tools we need to continue to do shows, certainly this year's crop of things that are going to be happening this summer make it feel as though there isn't Covid. And if we continue to do the best practices around Covid, maybe we can get back to work closer to what we were doing before Covid hit us. And the only other component I would add to that is, you know, we need to make room for people's mental health during this return to work. A lot of folks are impacted in ways beyond just the illness of Covid or the uncertainty of coming back to work. There's this kind of knocking off the rust, finding that instinctive behavior and making sure that our teams are mentally fit to be there as well, and that we're not forgetting the simple things that can get us in harm's way. I'm super happy that you mentioned that, because, I mean, the the, the mental anguish of having to deal with this and all the restrictions we've lived with is one of those things that's just a big Debbie Downer. And I know so many people are happy to go back to ballrooms and venues to actually deploy and do live entertainment in some form or fashion. That has become like the happiest thing. I've never seen a cruise happier in my life than I have in the last year when we're out in a ballroom space because they're like, well, thank goodness we're back to work. And anyway, Theresa, your Alaska thoughts on, you know, do you think we're going to be dealing with this for the rest of this year? And, and what advice you're giving to any potential person producing a show? Oh gosh. Yes. We are going to definitely 100% be dealing with this be 2022 and beyond, just as Jim said. Clay, as Clay said that, you know, before this, this virus hit humans, it was in animals and they're, you know, 17 or so variants, you know what I mean? So it's just going to keep growing. It's going to keep expanding and not to like gross people out. But that's just the way viruses work. You know, there's a lot of science on on this, but best practice. Wear a mask. That's it. Please. It doesn't sound complicated. And one of those N95 masks, not like, you know, other masks and N95 masks, which will protect you. Well, listen, I, I want you to know I appreciate all the wisdom that you all have shared. I want to thank Jim, Teresa and Clay. You all are amazing. I'm so excited that we get to go back to work. I'm going to be the voice of optimism and on my optimistic side is saying, we are going to go back to doing the things we love to do, and we're going to overcome this obstacle. And as this bump in the road, I have a doctor friend of mine when this first happened, March of 2020, and he said, yeah, it will probably be good by June. And then I said to him, June 2021 and then I now I'm like, June 2022, you know, we're going to have to learn to do things a little bit smarter. I think if if any listener listens to this and gets one thing out of it, it's the responsibility of anyone on show site to take protective measures to ensure whether through masks, through vaccinations, through best practices, for cleanliness, to ensure that they're safe and fit, to go out and participate and be part of a winning crew that delivers what we do. And I think that's the big takeaway. I thank you all. I wish you the gift of health and staying Covid free, and I look forward to seeing you all in a ballroom, in a convention center. And and everyone have a great next show. I'm sure it's coming. And this is Leskovac and the road head, everybody. Good job. Excellent. Thanks. Thank you.