HOW CINEMA CAMERAS ARE RESHAPING LIVE PRODUCTION

Les 14.929 Hello, Production World. This is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have three amazing guests. I have Rick Siegel. He's a director of photography for the digital and cinema world. I have François Gatheer and he is the ARI Senior Product Market Manager for Live Systems. And I have Rick Price. He's the architect and designer for LMG Video Systems. And everyone, welcome to the show today. Thank you for joining. Today we have a really interesting show to talk about. The topic is the world of digital cinema cameras and live events. And I have three experts that are going to give us a dose of digital cinema live events and cameras. And I'm super excited to talk about this today as shameless promotion. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. [...] I'm a big fan of digital cinema cameras. Can you kind of take the audience into the world of what does that mean? Francois Gauthier 1:30.230 I love that you asked that question because I was going to say maybe we should say cinematic live but I actually like that digital cinema because it tells a story. Back in the mid 2000s, we basically had a product called the Ariscan and this was the first time we were taking celloid and converting it to digital to do the digital intermediate, the visual effects, things like that because it was more efficient. Today, many years later, we've been using cameras in cinematic environment that were digital. So we've moved this entire post-processing into digital because it's more efficient. So when we talk about cinematography, digital, cinematography, cinematic live, we're basically talking about taking the content and doing the post-production live. That's the key. We're able to shade or adjust cameras so they all look the same and they're different maybe for every song, maybe they're different for every light environment but essentially they all match so we can cut between them without having to record and bring it to post to do editing. It's all happening live so that the customer at home can see it as the director of photography intended the storytelling to go. Les 2:39.670 I like your response. I'm starting to get a little bit of the digital cinema vibe on this call on this this video audio podcast rather I Want to throw it to Rick and Rick you have a lot of experience working with real film Cellulose as Francois said and digital cinema What's your take if you're trying to describe the digital cinema world? Especially from your background having worked in traditional film for many many years So how do you describe it to someone who doesn't know a whole bunch about it? Rick Siegel 3:13.766 Thank you for your generous introduction, and I'm very happy to be here with all of you. When I sit down with someone and they ask me that question, we first talk about what we're doing and the story we're telling. [...] Now, what's the best way to tell that story? So digital cinema in this instance in the multi-cam world means we're going to capture or film something that happens once, or may happen and repeated, but it usually is a performance or something that has a duration, could be a soccer match, could be Eurovision, which I know Ari had 24 cameras at. It could be one of many things that has a beginning, middle, and end, and we will, the promise you make with multi-cam on a live event, a play, an opera soccer match is that you're going to witness what's going on. Now, how we photograph, how we use those cameras, what lenses we use, what color settings, what codecs we record in, a whole slew of decisions get made about how we're going to make something look in order to tell that story the best way possible to the audience. So digital cinema is taking cinematic looks that we use with the lighting, the lensing, and camera placement, camera movement, editing style, and then how do we back in, do we match the cameras for each song and let it play across if it's a soccer match? We don't want to change looks if it's a musical, maybe one number is a little cool in blue, maybe one number has got two tones to it and we change things. So the capability within those cameras and the change of lenses and how we use them coupled with lighting and wardrobe and talent and all the set pieces all goes into that thinking behind what is digital cinema. It's the promise to the audience we're going to give you a story and help you understand it and engage it in a way that's very fulfilling and emotionally adept. Did that make sense? Les 5:34.156 Oh, absolutely. Oh, and you guys had very different perspectives. So I'm going to throw it to the other Rick Price. And when I say the word digital cinema, what comes to mind? Because we, you know, we have different viewpoints. And what comes to mind when I say digital cinema to you? Rick Price 5:51.143 Okay, so I will have to be completely honest. If you'd have said, asked me that a year ago or more, sweat would have been dripping down my forehead and frustration would have set in because what coming from over 30 years of broadcast sports entertainment background, broadcast systems, broadcast cameras, sports, we know what that process is. [...] And having come come on board with LMG a few years ago and getting more involved with things like touring, where over, I'd certainly over the last five to six years, the requests for multi-camera coverage of a concert with the cinema look has been repeated more and more every year, right? And of course a lot of times you ask well, what do you mean by the cinema look? And they really can't tell you. Shell it up the field. 24 frames. I'm like, OK, really? You want to do 24 frames on an iMac screen? I don't think you really do. [...] So there has always been some frustration, because we've gotten those requests for, yeah, we want to do six or seven or 10 or 11 cameras. [...] And we want them to be cinematic. Well, five years ago, six years ago, you didn't have many options. Maybe you threw some Sony FX6s around or even whatever, other brands. There was no cohesive traditional broadcast [...] infrastructure to make all of those work well. So it was always sort of a hodgepodge of technologies trying to execute that cinema look. So that's what's so exciting about where things are now and where things are going, that we've been able to effectively blend more effectively the two worlds from a technical infrastructure perspective. And even to some extent, an operator perspective, lensing has become more broadcast, I won't say broadcast-centric, but more similar to a traditional broadcast lens, whether that's a big box lens or a handheld lens. You don't have to deal with the gears and the things and the rods and all that. So it's exciting to kind of know that something with the RE live system, the amazing ability and color science of that camera, which is used on every major film there is, combined with live multi-camera event. To me, that's just fantastic. And I'm looking forward to really learning and all of that and executing it. Les 9:16.385 Very interesting very interesting you all had three unique kind of approaches to this question so you all get five stars on your answer so I'm giving you five stars right now so I'm moving on. My question is how do you describe the technology different from the traditional 4k broadcast camera. And we have a 4k camera and people have done multi camera for years and years whether it was HD 4k and now we're dealing with you know digital cinema cameras can you kind of take us through the technical differences. Francois Gauthier 9:50.865 Absolutely. But before I talk about technical, I want to tag along to something Rick said. [...] We like to say, Ari, if you have a good story, you have a book. If you can like that story, you have a play. If you can lens that story, you have a feature. So it starts with the story. It would be really sad to have an incredible story and not be able to deliver it because of technical reason. So in the last couple of years, the budget has certainly been something that many production struggle with. We have less money to do more or at least to keep the level we had. And this is where 4K is a good example. Some people are going to say, Well, I need more people watching my content. So they're going after more pixel. Some people are saying, I'm going with better pixel. Some people are going with faster pixel. So the concept of more pixel, does it give you something? So 4K resolution has been used in many consumer and prosumer platforms. And it certainly is a viable thing to do in display technology because we're sitting closer to those big screen TV. We're sitting like five feet away from our big screen TV in a small apartment. So you want to have more pixel, more density. But when you capture something with good quality pixel, the up-convert to this screen is not that visible. So we've been continuing with HD and many movie theater. We've been continuing with format that are sometimes less than 4K in many environment. And it's all about the story. If the picture is there, if the quality is there at the acquisition side, we don't have to have issues with the delivery. So now it brings us the question about better pixel. What is better pixel? And in cinematography, we like to talk about dynamic range, color rendition, things like that. So we have more to work with. So that somebody like Rick and Rick here will not have to fine tune and try to say I have a limited space and I need to tweak everything to fit into that limited space. No, I have all the fire, the pyrotechnic, the confetti, the reflection, the specular highlight. Everything is there and I get to choose what I want. That is better pixel. But in sports, we are looking also at higher pixel or faster pixel. We're looking at high frame rate because these replay, they bring more people to the shot. They want to see that goal. They want to see that person tripping or that player hitting somebody else. It shouldn't happen, but it happened anyway. So these three things together, higher quality pixel, faster pixel and sometimes more pixel, they're played together as a tool to tell the story. So 4K has been used by many people as just a buzzword and they just put more pixel. And many customers looked at it and say, yeah, it's more resolution, but I don't really feel that cinematic look. So when Rick, you mentioned about that cinematic look and everybody's asking for it, they cannot quantify it. It's much more than a shout out to feel or 24 frames per second. It is all of these things put together and that is what we've always achieved in cinematic because it was zero, it's a zero failure business in terms of picture quality, but broadcasts a zero failure business in terms of efficiency. We mix them together and that's why we're focusing on that storytelling and that 4K is only valid if it brings to the story. Les 13:18.134 Very interesting. So, Rick, in your history doing multi-camera, [...] have you had different experiences between working in a HD world or a 4k world versus a digital cinema world and maybe, you know, one of the fundamental differences you're dealing with and trying to execute as the, I would call the most creative one on this call. How about that? Rick Siegel 13:44.561 I'll put that crown on. Thank you. Having done multicam for over 30 years, I'll dare say 40, I won't give away anything else. I've been there since standard TV and Super 16 and and 16 mil and multicamera [...] all the way up through HD and watch the evolution of color space and the languages and all the ingredients that have gone. I still find them in dipping my brushes in the same idea paints. I always have. I don't find that I'm in a new place with any difficulty because the language I'm talking is story. Now, how do we what do we do with the technology we have to get that across? What's the best way? What's the best lens? What's the best pixel map? What's the best color space? Aries got log C3 latest log C4. The camera is capable of some incredible looks. And then just one other thing I want to just talk about the word cinematic has become a buzzword only in the past 15 or 20 years. But we always chased what film looked like and then printer lights and and print stocks and negative stocks. And how do you get that across on today's cameras and understanding that all of that goes into it? Very simply, if I said to you that Rick Price is a very cinematic guy, you'd want to go, well, what makes him that? And well, I'd say it's this, this, that and that. But that's not the whole Rick Price story. Same thing goes for what cinematic digital cinema. [...] It's many things and what Francois was talking about is part of it. The story getting it across to answer your question. What have I seen? I've seen a lot of technology change, but the language has stayed the same. What's the story? What's the best way to get it across now? Creative people, how do we get that to work with the technology we've got? It was 525 lines and five stops of dynamic range. And now I have 18 stops of dynamic range and enormous color space. I can do things on set. I can do things in post and understanding it all is is what I bring to that process and love it. It's a passion of mine. Obviously, I'm very enthused by this is a great discussion. Thank you. I don't know if I've answered your question, but I think I've advanced the the distance, the history we've traveled, the language we've used and the way we tell stories with the technology today. Les 16:34.098 So, Rick Price, could you add to this discussion about you're you're putting together a three-camera, four-camera digital cinema package versus an HD package. What do you see of the fundamental differences on the mechanics of putting it together and asking the right questions to the people planning the event? What do you think is the fundamental differences? Rick Price 16:58.677 So, yes, I mean the ability, the unique difference that I'm learning right now when we're using something like the RE camera, [...] and and then the, we'll just call it the lens to screen and lens to record destinations. Whatever those destinations are, because again, it's a live delivery. It's a live show, start and end done. So the unique thing about traditional broadcast would be, I'm going to get all the cameras matching and we're going to pick a format, whether it's whatever it is, 1080p, 4K, whatever it happens to be. And we're going to, we're going to start the program. We're going to, directors going to cut the program live and we're going to record [...] ISOs of these cameras so that storytelling can be better suited like after the fact as well, so that repackaging of the story can be done more effectively. but in the cinema world, we have this thing called lock. And we have this thing called raw codecs. And we have these things that from a traditional broadcast perspective are new, right? Because the idea that I'm going to take a camera and be able to spit out 12G raw, I mean, 12G log, 12G looks, 3G, 3G looks, all of it, all simultaneously. Well, now from an engineering perspective, that expands. All of your options it expands all of your IO it expands all of those types of things So that's what's really interesting for me right now is getting my head around that As opposed to the traditional setup where we would have you know Just got all the cameras looking as best as we can they look great Everybody's happy and we do the show and we record the program and that's it well with this cinema Workflow the idea that number one there's probably a greater value to the content after the live event, potentially, then there actually is for the live event. And so therefore the recording format, the recording process, the recording considerations have to be greatly considered in this process. And that's, again, that is all completely new for us, whether that's log or recording raw and handing that off, all of those different things are completely new processes that a traditional broadcast setup doesn't have. Rick Siegel 20:05.350 If I can, can I just add a little adjunct to that? The, in the old television days, as Rick was saying, it's a plug and play mindset. We have eight cameras, we have them going to a switcher. There's a signal flow and we're cutting it live and we're recording ISOs and we're gonna cut this in post or use the line cut. That's a given understanding. And oh, and one other thing when Rick said log, it stands for logarithmic recording. It's a method of recording a wide dynamic range and a smaller signal. But anyway, then we get to a place now, and that was all very simple off the shelf, put it together, get it to location, run the triaxe, bang. We now have a setup for digital cinema cameras that usually is gonna take some more checkout time. There's more advanced work that needs to be done to get that system attuned to the use and the most important word ever, deliverable. What's the deliverable? If it's going live up to the screen, okay, that's one deliverable. If it's being recorded for streaming, out for streaming, that's another. If it's being recorded for subsequent broadcast or streaming later, that's another, there's a lot more considerations now than we used to have. Anyway, I just wanted to add that Rick Price 21:22.631 Mm-hmm. Les 21:24.764 So my next question to this group, and it's, I think Rick, you might, Rick Siegel, you might actually have the most input of this. If we're going to do a show, how important is the lighting element? Being that you're also a lighting director, I mean the whole lighting and all the things that the color science allow you to do, what does that impact the storytelling and the finished product? Rick Siegel 21:53.089 It's hugely important. It is not to be underestimated. It is vital that lighting also tell the story, shape the story, color the story, tone it, working with the wardrobe, working with sets. And if it's in a venue, working with whatever the act is and whatever the music is, that it be in alignment and support the artist. And then therefore tell the story on camera. It's hugely important. And these days in my position, I get to design lighting. So get the lighting, I'll work. Or I work with a tour. An opera's got a lighting designer, a ballet's got a lighting designer. Broadway shows have like rock and roll shows have like, I did Michelle Obama on her book tour. They had a lighting designer. So I have to work with them in an existing show and get a television show looking good, better than it did in live because television is about a closeup. Not about a wide shot. And most lighting designers work from the house in and it's vital that you start from the closeup and work out. And most lighting designers have no idea about that. And that is hugely important. So to answer your question, lighting is everything. Because if you don't light it well, you can have the best camera in the world and it isn't gonna look very good. Les 23:23.742 Well that is a really interesting consideration. So when someone says I'm gonna go down the path if I went with a traditional Multi-camera with 4k cameras the lighting is probably a slightly more forgiving But here in the emphasis on lighting to get the real beautiful imagery that you want and what the camera technology offers It's just it's something that's not an afterthought It is part of the core things the design of the show to get you the best outcome And if you're going into working with digital cinema cameras the lighting designer is a really important person and without that that that emphasis on that LD and and the use of light Rick Siegel 24:00.582 huge Les 24:07.607 You know if you're not going to do that You might as well just use 4k cameras and do a basic Because because you're gonna give up all the things that you can gain with this technology That's what it seems like to me. So in pre-production there has to be some discussion tonight we do a lot of concert tours and You know doing multi-camera at concert tours is almost You know price of admission you get there. How many cameras are we setting up? We've got POV cameras We got PTZ cameras. We've got moving. We got cameras are everywhere. Okay, because it's all about taking the Performer and you know depending upon the venue people can be sitting close or far away And you want to bring that person in iMAG, you know to life and to do it And there's always a lot of lighting involved. So it seems like the artists are trying to be more creative and The use of light and storytelling. I think the digital cinematic world gives them a bigger palette to tell that story That's probably how I see it Rick Siegel 25:15.793 I think that's a very accurate way to put it. A lighting needs to be considered as one of the paints on that palette. Francois Gauthier 25:23.121 If I may, because we make also lights at Ari, I have access to a Grand MA, I work on an MA3. So I look at shows like Big Concert and things like that, and it's all about moving lights. And you are creating a story. So each moving light is a character. As a matter of fact, when you do virtual production and you use on meal, every light that you place is called a character, an actor. So they are part of the story. And I like the fact that when I mentioned, if you have a good story, you have a book, if you can light that story, you have a play. We have many people using our lights in theatrical environment and they're shaping stories. I mean, I saw some plays on Broadway where I thought it's incredible. I didn't even know it was possible to do that with light. There's no cameras needed. It was just doing everything. But I've seen also many situations where I called the director of photography and I said, I love what you did in that movie. And they would say, I felt it was a little bit like cheating because the set design, the lighting was so good that I just pointed my camera at it and it looked beautiful. So that's important. But I will say that from a technical perspective, there are things we put in our lights today that we didn't put maybe 10 years ago. The color science back then of the camera, for example, there was no LED lights on set 15, 16, 20 years ago. So we didn't really have those narrow spectrum of lights that LED lights give us. We didn't have those neons that now every content creator has. So we had to add that in the color science, not only of the camera, but of the light as well. So a SkyPano, an orbiter, a SkyPano Pro and everything, have red, green, blue, cyan, lime magenta, and other color science that we mixed together to be able to go get those new ones of fabric that didn't exist back in 2010. Maybe those lights that didn't exist or were not thought of in 2010. So we evolved both the camera and the light so that they would have a flat spectrum. So we can go in and say that sponsor color is accurate. You don't need to modify it to get paid. You point the camera at it, you point the light at it, you make one adjustment, and you're all set. But also means skin tone accuracy and things like that that were not necessarily possible with video cameras in the past, which we can easily do in cinematography. Rick Siegel 27:42.934 It is a great time because lighting and camera color space, color science has caught up with one another. And when I do XR work or anything composite work, that the LED screen and the lights and the camera can now come together. It's a great time. Les 28:03.654 So this question is to Rick Price. Rick, what makes you so excited? I mean, we do as a company probably thousands of multi-cameras every year, thousands of them, every week, probably 20 to 50 every week of these different shows. But what makes you excited about deploying this technology and the outcome that you can create for our clients? What are your thoughts on this? Rick Price 28:27.473 Well, absolutely. I mean, being able to satisfy the request, whether it's can be defined or not of, oh, I want a cinematic experience for for my live multi-camera event, being able to do that effectively. Yeah, I'm looking forward to learning and engaging. I'm not going to say master because I might not have enough time to do that, but getting a little long in the tooth. But you know, but it's a whole new world for me. It's a whole new world. So learning that new world is is very exciting. [...] You know, and in my particular case, I mean, the reality is a tour. I mean, if they're gonna have 11 or 12 cameras, they're very likely not going to be able to afford 12 Aries. Right? So we're we're gonna have our key primary hero cameras as our Aries and then we're gonna supplement with different brands, different models, different things. So for me, the idea, I mean, in the past at a broadcast setup, I mean, that was like, oh my God, you didn't look forward to that at all, like trying to match different models and manufacturers and lenses and all that stuff. It was painstaking. So I'm looking forward to what that process looks looks like now, especially when we're talking about working with things like log and whatnot. And we've got tools like the AJA Color Box and other tools to make all all of the environment blend together as perfectly as we can. That's what I'm looking forward to. Les 30:34.092 So this question is to Francois. Where does a person go to learn and best understand this technology? Where would you send someone? Is there a course, a book? How do you learn other than on-the-job training and working with the technology? How do you learn to put your arms around it and get some knowledge? Francois Gauthier 30:55.873 That's a really good question. I've been doing that for 30 plus years and I feel that I'm gonna need another 30 plus to feel like an expert, like Rick was mentioning. Whenever we sell a system, we include training, commissioning, and it's a really intensive training. It's about a week commissioning and everything, and there's a lot of content. And everybody says, well, I've been doing that for 30 years, and at the end of the first day, they're thinking, wow, there's so much I need to learn. But what's interesting is that the first question they ask is, oh, can I have a copy of that PowerPoint or something like that? And they say, you don't need to because everything's on our website. So I never thought I was gonna push people to go see a website, but in our case, we've put a lot of training material on our website. So there's a workflow section. So when we talk about workflow, to be able to send a 709 to, let's say, a broadcaster, an American broadcaster, at the same time as we send an HLG, an hybrid log gamma HDR to Netflix, Amazon, Oulu, maybe a PQ to somebody else, all of these can be done simultaneously and it takes a lot of information. So all of that is on our workflow section in the website. There's also an ARI Academy. So my colleague Florian teaches at Academy. That's like three days, fairly intensive as well on the camera and getting to learn all the menus and how we craft the picture and things like that. So it's not so much an artistic presentation, much more. Here's how you use the tool to be able to combine it. But I will say one thing. Many years ago we got involved with a project called Cinematographer Style [...] and many of the cinematographer that were interviewed said, I started as a painter. I was painting and at one point I realized that my story, my hands were not good enough to tell my story. So I moved to still photography. And then from still photography, I got to a point where I felt I couldn't tell the stories. I moved to moving pictures, to video. So I would say anybody who has that story and he wants to learn, they will probably go to that progression of understanding what is painting, what is Rembrandt lighting, what are these things. And that might not be on our website, but they're gonna get to a point where they're gonna go to still photography, they're gonna go to video, and they're gonna get to a point where they're gonna say, even though I did all of that from still photography or painting to video, there's still something I'm missing. And that's probably somewhere on our website in one of these tutorial section or white paper. So if somebody is patient enough to read all of it or if they wanna go to the academy, if they're willing to invest the time, they're gonna find tons and tons of information to get them that little trick that brings them one step closer to telling their story. Les 33:30.752 So what I'm taking out of what all of you are saying is there is so much art and telling the story that this is like a tool in your toolbox. [...] And just like you set up for a shoot, you know, when you do live multi-camera, it's happening one time, good or bad. Fix it in post. If it's live, whoever's going to see it on the screens, there's no fix it in post time. But really, when we think about just doing standard multi-cam for any type of live event, you know, it's really it's about just having an image on the screen and matching and being able to time cameras and switch and making sure you have the right shot that you need. But here, it seems like color and lighting and are integrated with this technology to produce an artistic outcome. And that is something that's very different. We don't think about that. I mean, I'm sure there's schools where people learn how to switch cameras, multi-camera, whether it's a sporting event or if it's a theatrical event. But here, we're talking about true art and it's just something very different. I think that's why the artists that are the musical artists are so trying to embrace this. Because this feels more like they're what they're doing. They're singing to music and telling a story. And there's some kind of scenic elements on the stage. And it seems like this piece fits in the equation to help do all of that than just standard iMag on screens. Rick Siegel 35:11.201 Yes, the word I always say to people is, Everyone knows how to look. Not everyone can see. see. And showing things is what we try to do, and to give the story across. And if you can teach people to see, everyone knows how to look. It's the difference between hearing and listening. Everyone listens. Not everybody hears it. So that's at the center of storytelling for me. Les 35:45.430 I was recently at the museum d'Orsay in Paris and looking at all the different great painters about two weeks ago and Rick Siegel 35:48.790 Hmm Les 35:55.870 This what you've all said inspires me to think about this in a more artistic way then in a Technical way in what I would call just a hooking up cameras and trying to capture a moment We were really trying to Deliver that moment in the most creative artistic [...] Color science beautiful imagery That is humanly possible and that is fundamentally the difference this to me is my last question I'm just gonna go around the horn. I'm gonna start with you Rick price [...] Will this become the future of high-end long-term? multi-camera for live events or will it be a boutique unique technology if I take you 10 years from now Will we be doing digital cinema or cinematic? Events all the time like that's just a regular thing or you think it'll stay to be a little bit of the nichey product that Only a certain subset of people use will become mainstream or not Rick Price 36:59.249 I think, as the sort of the two industries come together as far as infrastructure is concerned, broadcast and cinematic as that blends more together and then your user base becomes more. I think, yeah, I actually do. Because outside of a sporting event, why wouldn't you want? that sort of storytelling type imagery, right? Outside of a live sporting event like whatever formula one or whatever it might be, you know high speed Yes, I in the slow-mo replay. Yes, I get that that's that's the high-end aspect of that but I don't see why not I don't see why not and especially if Yeah, I think you give it ten years and and and and you know more manufacturers and more players come on board and it becomes a little more Commodities technically. Yes. I think I think it will you know You still got to tell a story and you still got to do the lighting and you still got to do all those things But I think it would be Les 38:16.390 So you think it'll become mainstream? Rick Price 38:18.863 Yeah, I think it's going to become more requested absolutely Les 38:24.321 Francois, your thoughts? Francois Gauthier 38:27.302 I think it's already here. I think there's already a demand. I would say when I look at a broadcast picture versus a cinematic picture, and I know we talked about different things today, but a broadcast picture is kind of contrasty. So to me, it's a lot like writing an uppercase in an email. It aggresses me. So when I look at a picture that's too contrasty, that's too broadcast, it's not appealing to me. But I think the bigger question is where I will be in 10 years, because I think it's going to be my kids watching this. And what I see is that the younger generation, at least younger than me, I've grown up with a lot of video games, which are usually created with that cinematic look. They also have lots of saturation, which goes a little bit different in cinematic look, but they have that show that the field, they have those specular highlights, they have lots of details in the shadows and things like that. So they've grown up with that type of environment, and they're already asking for it, because we have broadcasters, we have sports broadcasters saying, You know what? I need to test more of that cinematic look because my customer is asking for it, the viewer is asking for it, and they're often referencing the younger target coming into watching these sports and everything. So I think it's already here. I think it's already established. I don't see that going anywhere. Les 39:46.466 So, Rick, Siegel, you are officially the videographer, [...] photographer, director of photography, lighting person. You are here representing the production world of people who go out and do this. Take me into the future 10 years from now. What will digital cinema be in 10 years? Rick Siegel 40:10.086 I think the visual lexicon that Francoise Kidd's and your clients already have is exactly cinematic. Everything that we have been watching gets more and more cinematic and in 10 years that will still be a desire and I look at it this way. It's the delineation between present tense video and Super Bowls and sporting events is now and I think past tense. I think about the Super Bowl halftime. It's not exactly now even though I know it is but it has another look, has another feel and I think of that as storytelling is past tense once upon a time. I don't think that slows down. I think that speeds up in 10 years. You will be more into that visual lexicon will need to be serviced and people will spend the money to create it and make that kind of product, that kind of visual product. Les 41:15.340 Guys, today I learned about art. I learned what digital cinema is and storytelling. I learned about so many things we need to think about with lighting and design and more planning to deliver something amazing. I gotta thank you, Rick Siegel and Rick Price and Francois Gatier. You all are amazing. I look forward to seeing you in a space where we have some massive digital cinema thing going on displayed on the LED walls. And we are all marveling on how amazing it looks. And we're all going, do you remember that podcast we did? Oh yeah, you remember that podcast we did to talk about this? Look at the gosh darn product. It is so amazing. And when the audience dazzles and you hear the applause, we all look like heroes. This is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. And gentlemen, thank you so much. Great job.