LOOKING BACK & LOOKING AHEAD

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have three amazing guests. I have Lynda Field. She is the executive producer, a freelance person who is with Lynda Field Productions. I have Miles Kapper, he's a stage manager with Show Architect, and I have Jeff Goldstein who is the founder of Legend Productions. Everybody, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. You. Well, today's show is dedicated to reflecting on 2021 and maybe what 20 2022 looks like. I had too many twos in there and we want to get your thoughts on on how the year went, what do we think about the future? And our first question is going to go to Miles. Miles, what stands out in relation to shows and events you've worked on in 2021 and since the pandemic, and how things have changed? What are your thoughts? Well, in 2021 was the official birth of going hybrid or virtual. And there's a significant difference and there's no need to get into that right now. But I think what is important is, and I think what's on everybody's radar is all those live ballroom shows that were booked in 2022. And everyone like me thinking that we could put three of our four laptops away because we won't need them anymore. Well, that just all went out the window in the last couple of weeks with the new with the new COVID threat. And I mean, just this morning I've had two live events cancel, and I've picked up two virtual events for 2022. And I think that's very telling of where this is going for the next six months or so. Okay. All right. So maybe some live might be transitioning to virtual or hybrid or or that's one of the possibilities. Linda, what are your thoughts on reflecting back on what happened in 21 and what your thoughts are for the future going forward? Well, 2021 was definitely, you know, scary year 2020, 2021. I think this past year, people got more creative with doing virtual events. I also think that there's been a reverse thing with people not working in offices. In many ways, companies are over communicating with virtual events to their employees because they're feeling they're realizing the employees need that sense of connection, that sense of networking that that the I think they finally realized for real that the live events are much more than just the content in the ballroom, that they are about being together and having that sense of togetherness. So everyone is itching to get back into live events. They're they're really dying to. But right now, sorry, that was I didn't mean that as a pun. But with this new COVID threat, people that were planning to do live in 2022 are hitting the brakes and saying, let's see how this goes again. So I think virtual is still going to be around for a good part of this year. You know, I agree with you on some level of uncertainty, but I will say that the venues are making it very difficult because they have very hard cancellation policies. And with all that pent up demand for the shows, that didn't happen in 20 and 21 that pushed that, you know, they're booked. And if you don't want to do your show, someone else wants that space. And so economically, if you're not going to do the show, you're still going to pay for the venue, because that's the rules. Jeff, what are your thoughts? Reflect back on 2021 and maybe what your thoughts are for 2022. Sure. Well, I think I'll take a slightly different tack, because I think Miles and Lynda have characterized the unprecedented nature of 2021 and how we had to deliver programs, but I think my tech is that the more things change, the more they stay the same. And the reason I say that is because even though we had to think differently in 2021, the basics are still kind of the same for our for our clients. You know, they've got they've got very serious objectives. They need to tell their stories. They need to engage their constituents, they need to satisfy their stakeholders. And, you know, so I think, you know, the gleaning we have coming at the end of the year here is that. Yeah, we had to do things very differently. We had different tools we had to to, to utilize. But the interests and the objectives are are the same. You know what I do believe though, is that it's not the end game. I think that people want to be together. I think 2022, everybody will be making every effort to to bring people together. I think human connection is still a goal. But as as Miles has pointed out, you know, this latest round of of the virus is is giving everybody, you know, a rethink. So so I think the timetable is the question mark. But I but I think the endgame is still to get people back into their seats, you know very thoughtful. I believe everyone wants to go back to ballrooms and to spaces where we can get together, because there's something about people in a room, that energy when it comes together and those opportunities to network with your peers, that kind of gets missed in some respects when when everyone's not gathered in the same place. But ultimately, you know, we're going to have to figure a way out of this. One of my friends from one of the theme parks in Orlando, I asked this question this weekend. I said, you know, what do you think? How will our convention tradeshow industry be impacted? And he said to me, well, when the internet came out, they thought that was the end of conventions and obviously that didn't do it. And so we will survive this, this episode of COVID and we will be back in ballrooms. They're not taking wrecking balls to convention centers yet. So this is just a matter of how long and the time frame. But let me move on to my next question. This is to Miles. Miles, will we ever go back to the way it used to be, the way we've done it, like, you know, for years and years and years obviously technology evolved and we use new tools. But but we kind of had a way about doing things. Will we ever get back to that way? Oh yes. And I think for equipment and crew places there's even more opportunity there. You know, in a in a way, we've always done hybrid events in a ballroom because there's always one person, you know, that's sort of invisible to us that makes sure the signal goes out to the folks that want to see the show on their desk. And I think that is now going to be expanded and possibly a separate video director backstage, a separate graphics person backstage, a separate associate producer backstage. Because what's what I believe is happening is what COVID has done is it's legitimized sending the signal to everybody, not in the ballroom. And people have honed in on that. And as a result, that's going to be an option. That will be that will be offered in far more detail than it has been in the past, that that sales meeting for 1600 people in the ballroom will only be half of what you see. The other half will also be backstage broadcasting to all those folks that didn't come live. Got it. Okay, so we've got the ballroom, the people in person, and we've got the people that are watching remotely and maybe they can't travel, so maybe there's some limitations or or they don't want to travel. Lynda, what are your thoughts? Are we ever going to go back to the way we used to do it? Well, I agree with Miles. I think that the live in person stuff is going to be even more valued when we do go. But I also noticed something recently that, you know, I'm in a big urban area, Les, you're in an urban area, you know, it's what's happening is some of these regional events are going off because there's a lot of places in North America where they're not as concerned about super spreader event, about that they have a smaller maybe it's 100 people and they all live in the same geographic area, and they're not as concerned about doing these in-person events and concerned about it. I tend to work with fairly large, often multinational corporations, and the concerns are greater. So they have the more hesitancy because moving people country to country, even doing regional events, let's say throughout Europe, the logistics are hard. And I think they're very, very concerned about people feeling like their career path might be stymied if they choose not to travel. So they're trying to make options available so that nobody feels, you know, feels that they've they've tapped out at their job or anything like that. But I think that events are going to happen. You know, they're going to happen. But I agree with Miles that they're going to happen and make them more accessible for people that don't want to travel. Got it. Okay, Jeff, maybe you can be the contrarian view. Well, things ever go back to the way they were or do you think? Do you agree with Lynda and Miles? What are your thoughts? Well, I think partially they will go back to the way we know and love, but but not to the exclusion of this idea of hybrid. You know, I think I think Miles point about hybrid has been with us, but it's kind of been a sideshow, maybe even a bit of an afterthought. But I do think that, again, clients and audiences, I think, want to be back in the live space, but we're never going to get to that same 100% threshold, I guess, that we had maybe in 2019. Although when I look at what's going on with sort of the airline data and the hotel data, people are traveling and getting on planes and people are booking hotel rooms. So, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we need to look at that and go, there's a thirst for it and maybe it will get back to 100% what we know and love. But but I think the key for me is this idea of hybrid is going to be there. Its presence is going to be known because I think for now, we have to fulfill the needs of clients to reach members of that audience that are not going to travel. I also think that ultimately, you know, by sort of what I call it, the hybrid is really, to me, the merging of broadcast and in person disciplines. I mean, I think that's really, you know, for the clients, hybrid means, you know, being in person and doing a live stream. But but I think as event producers, you know, the way we construct a hybrid event, I think is going to bring together again broadcast and live event disciplines. So, so I think, you know, we're going to have to bring the strongest possible solutions thinking hybrid for the foreseeable future, meaning that we aren't going back to the way it was quite yet. So that that that's kind of my, that's that's my take. Well, it sounds like a lot of the same discussion that you all are talking about is this hybrid solution that we're going to be engaged in for 2022. And this is a question to Miles. Miles, what have you had as an experience that has proved to be very fruitful? And you know, what's the best approach toward doing hybrid that you've experienced or your thoughts on what's the perfect hybrid show? The two I've done in the last eight weeks, the production company has booked a studio and has brought in the presenters and has brought in the crew. It's basically a ballroom event without the audience, and I think that is the that is the ideal situation. I mean, I'm one of those stage managers that, you know, I want to be able to get up and walk five feet and visit with the graphics guy and say, can we land on this graphic after the video and not this one? And it's like it takes less than 30s in in the virtual world. That could be 20 minutes before I can ask that question. With everything going on. It's just that's the I think hybrid is the ideal solution for between ballroom and virtual. Okay. All right. Lynda, what are your thoughts on the best approach toward hybrid and whatever live and whatever virtual. What are your thoughts? Well, I don't think there is a perfect solution. I think the challenge I'm running into with clients right now is the idea of things getting stale very quickly, so we can execute a perfect show to Miles's point of view. You know, having, you know, a few studios, you know, that are connected with people in each studio, is fine, but people are ultimately getting tired of just this video rolls and talking heads, and they want to see they want more interaction. I think I'm also liking the fact that you have when we have presenters that don't want to travel. I just saw you probably know way more about this than I do less that this idea. We can basically put a person behind a podium a touch cast and that, you know, appears at their live even though they're on Zoom and but that people just want more interaction. And so we're struggling every day to come up with, you know, what's new, what's interesting, what doesn't feel like a bunch of people talking at you? How do we create a good dialog? You know? So for me, the best hybrid events are ones where we can have open dialog, where we can have fun, have a little bit of fun in the meetings, and even more than the perfect broadcast, it's about connecting and it's about people having a sense of community when they walk away. Yeah, that was such a thoughtful answer when you said that about community. We invested in a platform called Zuddl, and it's the sheer purpose of the platform is to give the same or the closest experience for that virtual person and the live person, and then to be able to go off into rooms and have discussions while they're watching the general session or, you know, there's so much to that idea that we don't just want to watch Talking Heads, we need the gamification. We need the, you know, throwing out the questions. Hey, what's the best flavor of ice cream? And, you know, the poles and things that get people engaged, that makes a hybrid event more worth experiencing than just sitting back and watching a flat screen and hearing audio and video. I agree with you in so many ways, Jeff. What are your thoughts? What's the best hybrid event? Yeah, well, I think you pretty much nailed it. You know, I think what you were just saying is really spot on. And, you know, I think the toughest thing for producers is going to be that recognition that the audiences have very distinct viewing habits and different points of engagement and what's going on. You know, at the Fountain Blue in Miami, you know, there's there's sort of a sequence of events and there's engagements and there's movement of audiences. Your online audience is not having that same experience. So building in the types of things you were just referring to on a platform, like subtle, as you mentioned, you know, making sure that, you know, when you're building that run of show, you know, you've got your cues that are designed for that in-person experience. But but you may have a totally different playlist or a totally different set of cues on, on your virtual rundown. And of course, maybe you have preprogramed elements and other features, unique one off features for your online audience. So I think the key for hybrid going forward is to make sure that all of those factors are considered. You know, that that your viewing audience in person and online are just are having vastly different experiences. And the tighter you can knit those or customize those, I think the better off our clients will be. We did a show earlier this year, which was for an MLM, and it was like 270 degree LED screen and had a whole bunch of feeds coming in Zoom, I don't know, 150, 200 people. And what we had, which was interesting, was it was kind of an awards program and everyone kind of had to dress up because they didn't know if they were going to be full screen. So it made the audience keep them on their toes because they were the participants. So as the award winners came out and this was done in a studio environment without a real live audience. But the point I'm trying to get to is what we need to do things that keep the audience engaged, and if we can find the methods that work, then all of a sudden this remote experience gets much closer to the in-person live experience. Whether you have an audience or you don't have an audience. So. So those are kind of the thoughts. But let me ask this question. And this one I'm going to throw to Lynda first actually is and our clients expectations changing as we return to some form of live, you know, the client expectation for 2 or 3 years ago and the client expectation today. It has to be different because the world is different. I think they are I think that they well, it's funny because in some ways people have idealized the live experience and they forget, you know, some of the some of the challenges that went along with that. But I think the expectations have really shifted. I think there was things that were, you know, everyone was all about, you know, the state we want to learn, we want to teach, we want to impart this. What we want to talk about. And what they're realizing is that a lot of it needs to be reversed. It's about what do you, the audience, want? Rather than what do I want to say? And they're realizing as they have, all the companies are having retention problems and they're having connection problems. And it's because of that sense of if you have strong teams, then they stay connected. But people feel so disassociated from parent corporations, from leadership, from those people that they don't see in the office or travel to meet, that they're realizing that they need to pay more attention to the worker and less to the leadership. Interesting. Very interesting. Jeff, your thoughts on client expectations as we return to life? Are they different? Are there the same? Well, that's a good one. And I think they're they're different. But I'm going to say mostly compared to 2020 because I think what's happening is as, as we kind of hopefully come out of this, we have done a couple of in-person events, hybrid events, and we've done one that was a full broadcast studio set up in a hotel ballroom, which Miles was just mentioning. But what we're finding is, is that everybody wants to depart from the way things looked in 2020. And so as much as I love Zoom and I love webcams and, and sort of mediocre microphones and, and poor lighting, nobody wants anything to remotely resemble that, you know, and, and I think that's sort of the kind of the big change that we're going to see is, as we get back into it, is perhaps not seeing the remnants of, of the early days of virtual. That's kind of what we're finding. You know, and there are. And the reason we're hearing that and seeing that is because there are still participants that, you know, that is that is the option for them to participate in an event is being at their webcam and being on zoom. But from a client perspective, it's kind of like, can we do anything but that? And you know, so I think that's, you know, that's that's the trick of, of, of kind of coming out of this and trying to have the production value and have the, you know, the polished look of a professional event, as we all know and love. But it's, you know, there's forces that are obviously working against that. So and my only other quick answer is I just think safety will continue to be a, you know, a top line consideration in terms of client expectation that that people are paying attention to, you know, the environment that we're working in. So those are my thoughts on that. I agree on a lot of your thoughts for sure, Miles. Well, client expectations change or what are your thoughts. Well, I think just I think Jeff hit on something that's kind of interesting in that, you know, when you when you go to a virtual event, in a way there's more opportunity to, as an attendee to participate, assuming all that stuff is in place to be able to do that. I just did a live event for 400 people two weeks ago, and I got to tell you that, I mean, people were excited walking into that ballroom. I mean, and we're talking really boring, high tech stuff. I probably now won't be called by 1800 producers, but okay, I said it. And the meetings. Boring high tech stuff. Yeah. There you go. Thank you, thank you. Les, But, I mean, there was an energy that everybody felt when people walked into that ballroom and that cannot be replaced by anything. And so, yeah, people want to get back into the ballroom. Some companies are being far more cautious about it than others. You know, some some people follow the the corporate COVID guidelines. And then of course, the hotels have their corporate COVID guidelines. And I think it's pretty much a seller's market for the hotels at this point. They, they, they command how you are going to behave in on their property regardless of what your COVID protocols are. Okay. We're moving on. Lynda, this question is to you. And it's kind of a multi-part question. Are we going to be able to fill ballrooms, our attendees ready to travel, and will the shows look different? Maybe your thoughts on any of those questions? What are people coming? Are we coming to the show? As Miles said, we had 400 people. It was electric as they were walking in the room. Both people really want to. I think a lot of the companies I work with are global, and the challenges, people are really hesitant to do anything where you're traveling international right now, not just because of, you know, most a lot of the companies I work with are mandating vaccines. Even before they were, you know, their mandate testing, even with vaccines. But we don't know when a surge hits and borders close and people can't attend. So people really, really want to get back there. People are really excited. They want it to be fun. They want to have that energy. They want to see their colleagues. They want to get off a computer screen. So I think they're really ready. But they need to also, the companies that they work for need to be able to show that it is going to be safe, that protocols are being taken care of. You know, we've all seen, you know, I think back to a show that I did in February of 2020 and how naive we were, and it was just at the first wave when things were starting to cancel. And we thought that handing out hand sanitizer and doing fist bumps or elbow bumps instead of hugging was going to take care of us. And that's the protocols that we had. So no hugging. No, that's the protocol. Put it on the advance notice to the attendees. You're allowed to arrive. No hugging. So but yeah, I think the same way the film industry is working and evolving and coming back. I think we are. I think they're going to be smaller, more select groups. Some of the companies I work for, they've had in-person leadership meetings of, you know, like 80 people. They're not ready to do their 5000 person back yet. But I think I think it will come. Well, you know, it's interesting. I recently got the protocol for the Consumer Electronics Show. And goodness gracious, there is a lot of eyes to dot and teased across. And they're enhancing protocol to to create the appearance of safety and to try to create a safe environment. I applaud them for all the things and the good practices they're doing. So this question back to Jeff. Jeff, are people coming? Are they traveling? Are they filling ballrooms? And will the shows look different? I'm a I'm a optimist on all of those points, I think. Absolutely. I think the only one. The only thing that's not on board with, with the optimism is the virus itself right now. You know, we look at the protocols that Broadway has, which are some of the best in the business. You know, we look at the broadcast industry, but there are setbacks. You know, we're seeing setbacks right now on on Broadway. You know, SNL, I think I don't know if it's the first time ever, but just did their show with a bunch of pre-taped and no studio audience. So, you know, so I think the mindset is absolutely there. The ambition is there, the willingness, I think, you know, basically everybody's ready, willing and able. We just don't know if this is a sprint or a marathon as far as dealing with all these variants and curveballs that are being thrown at us. So, you know, so I think, you know, you know, I just think it's we just it's day by day. I mean, it's literally day by day, as Miles just said, you know, you have suddenly we're faced with, you know, bookings for the spring or later this winter that are now reconsidering their plans. So we just have to kind of stay the course. But but I do feel, you know, from a, you know, crystal ball perspective. Yet the answers are very optimistic in my mind. Yeah. Miles you agree. Are you people coming there traveling. They're coming to the ballrooms. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, I think Jeff said it very well. You know, if you build a set and put in a lighting rig, they will come. But with a lot of different, you know, with a lot of different safety precautions along the way. I don't think people mind the safety precautions. I think the want to be in a ballroom, people will be more than happy to put up with those things. I mean, I was just thinking, if you had done this podcast even a month ago, we wouldn't be talking about 80% of the stuff. We would be talking about the optimism of, you know, where we're all going in 2022. And and, you know, we would be like wanting to put COVID behind us. And here we are, you know, deja vu all over again. Very true. Okay. This is going to be my last question. I'm going to start with you, Lynda. What have you missed the most in the past two years? Since March of 20 till now, about in the live event business, which I know you have a few years of experience. I'll leave it at that. Yes. A couple. You've done a few events in your career? At least a few. And with you? Yes. Back in your garage? Yes. But I like like the audience. I miss the energy of being in the room with people like all of us here. We know each other. There's that. You guys just look. We look at each other and we get what has to happen. And you can be so much more nimble in a live show. And you know that you can make a change. You can move somebody on stage, you just move things around. And I really, in some ways a live show. I forget, you know, you forget that it's can flow. It's easier when everyone's in the same room. As Miles says. He walks over and he asks for a change. Something happened and I miss I miss all of you guys. I miss, I miss hanging out with people. I miss doing great work with everybody and celebrating afterwards and seeing the attendees light up, not just click leave on their button. You know what I think we call it our road family. So we have our immediate family that we live with our spouses, our kids, our our relatives. And then we have our road family. And sometimes in this industry, the road family is almost closer to us than our immediate family because we spend so much time that way. Jeff, what are your thoughts? Man on on the last since March of 20. What have you missed the most? Well, I have to say this for my friend Miles, that more than anything, it's clearly the show baked in. But are you referring to a post on LinkedIn? I just want to know. Yeah, but after the show baked in. It's it is. It is our family. It's unquestionably it's our show, our road family. These are people that, you know, we've traveled around the globe together. We've had experiences in in the ballroom. But, you know, when the last Q drops and the rehearsals are done, you know, where we're sharing stories of of our lives and having a toast and enjoying the local cuisine of, of that particular market or city or country, you know. And so those are the intangibles that are, you know, those of us in the event business, you know, we miss that. We love working for our clients as we like to say, we like to work really hard and we like to play really hard. And, you know, no question that we're all working really hard in this virtual space, but we're not getting those opportunities to play hard. And, and that's that's a good chunk of the fun and part of the experience. And, and that's something that's exclusive to the production folks. Our clients are on board with that. You know, our local crews, you know, we love celebrating with the guys after guys and gals after, you know, after an event. You know, it's just part of of what we do and that's really missed. Okay, Miles, take us home. Bring us home. Stage manager, call the final queue. Stand by. Yeah, it's it's really what what both Lynda and Jeff said it's the it's the part I miss the most is sitting next to a producer at 9:00 in the morning at production control on the second cup of Starbucks and saying, hey, I see this happening in the show flow. Here's how I envision it happening. What do you think? And and do that collaboration and think about how that, you know what what could make that entrance a little bit more fun or whatever, and then doing the event and then having a beer with Jeff that evening in the bar, or I guess in Jeff's case, maybe shot of tequila. That's what I remember and talk about how it all went. And that is, I think, the most compelling reason why so many of us miss the ballroom. I want you all to know it is such a pleasure to be on a podcast with the three of you. You all speak about the shared experiences of. We spent so much time in ballrooms and convention centers, and the truly the community of people who put on shows is like a big family. And while we might not see everyone each day, we're on the road, so to speak, and we intersect and have so much fun doing what we do. And just to hear your voices and talking about it, it's encouraging to know we're going back to ballrooms. It's just, will we have a mask when whatever size and scale will there be hybrid? All of those things. So it's all going to happen. And I love your positivity that you all share. So kudos to all of you. I wish you a happy holiday season, a healthy one, a COVID free one, and we are going to kick ass and have fun in 22. And that is my final cue for this show. And this is Les Goldberg on The Road Ahead everybody. Great job and thank you so much for joining. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you.