THE RETURN OF LIVE TOURING

Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is courtesy of LMG with your host, Les Goldberg. Hello production world and welcome to The Road Ahead. This week I have three amazing guests. I have Marty Hom, who is a tour manager. I have Sooner Ruthier, who's a tour designer, and I have Omar Aberrahman. And Omar is a production manager as well. Welcome to the show, everyone. Nice to be with you, Les. Hello, hello. I am glad you are all here in this world. I want to throw this right to Omar. The first question, when do you think we're going to be experiencing a live show again? And in the world that you've lived and the thousands of shows you've done, I want to know, are we going to be doing them and what's the time frame as well as do you think we're going to be doing in person or we're going to be doing virtually or both? Oh boy. You gave me an easy one to start with. Last. Well, great to be with you. Look, I don't have the bona fide answer. My my guess would be this fall if the NFL plays, I'm very optimistic that, you know, acts that can get on the road and get going without having to spend four months in rehearsals. You know, that type of act could get a tour together and do something in the late fall, early winter. That's my optimistic hope. I don't know that that that's 100% going to happen, but that's what I hope will happen. And I think it it really comes down to, you know, will the audience be willing to come and gather? And my answer to that is always yes. If they're fans of a band or an artist, they're going to come, some with a mask, some without. But like I said, I'm optimistic that it'll be late fall, early winter. So so sooner. Do you share Omar's feeling and approach toward when people are coming back and and sooner? Do you think you're going to have to not only design the real show, but design some virtual show? Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Omar here. I mean, we are doing some form of live shows now, right? The driving concert thing is happening. There's even tours of these driving concerts happening now. So I think people just want to see live music. And as soon as they can do that, they're going to want to see it. I mean, we've always sort of created they've been doing a lot of live streams from concerts and recent years, right? Where they'll they'll actually film the show to be put live on Facebook or Instagram Live or whatever, YouTube. So I think that that's just going to continue and people will be experiencing it both through the internet as well as live as they were before COVID happened, for sure. Got it. And Marty, where are you on this? When are we going to be in a venue where we're going to be talking about loading in trucks? Do you share Omar's thought? Well, I have to tell you, I was trying to be hopeful and optimistic that, like Omar, I was hoping that we'd see shows in November and December. And now I'm being a realist. And to be honest with you, I don't see shows happening or tours happening until probably next year. May, June, July. Look, if our business is going the way of the live streaming and the drive ins, I'm going to retire because I've watched some of those live streaming Zoom shows and I've seen some of those driving shows. I have to tell you, I'm just going to get out of the business. I'm going to pack it up and and call it a day. Yeah. Are you saying that I shouldn't be buying tickets to drive ins? I'm. I'm not sure where the bathrooms are in the drive in, but, you know, and it's not sure how high the stage has to be. It's just it's just not for me. I will tell you that. You know, our model, our business model is not meant for social distancing. It's not meant for the COVID-19. Our business is meant to pack arenas with 15,000 people, or stadiums with 20,000 people, or theaters with 2000 people. It's meant to have people screaming and interacting. And there's Omar and Sooner. I'll tell you, it's the one magical moment when you say, go house lights and the lights go off and everyone starts screaming and your favorite artist is playing your favorite songs, that is our model. And look, I've tried to wrap my head around this to figure out how we should do this any other way. And the answer is that I always come back to is we really can't. We have to go back to the model as it was before. It can't change for us. So it's just a number of days, however many days, whether it's six months a year, whatever the cycle takes for the for obviously there to be a solution to this pandemic. So I want to shift this conversation to something different, because we're all in a business that seems to be so much fun when you're out there and you're experiencing it. So, you know, what is it? Omar, that you like or love about the touring industry and what's the most fun that you have doing it? You know, I would have to say that that we're we're so blessed that we've been able to go all over the world and do all this type of stuff, and that's fine. And not to sound jaded, but once you, you know, been to the Great Wall of China a few times and the pyramids and this and that, the travel, it really doesn't mean that much for me. It really comes down to the camaraderie of of the people, the guys and gals who I work with, you know, specifically on the crew and on staff. And some folks have been with me for ten, fifteen, twenty years, and it really makes the difference. It's a family type of thing. We pull together and have a great time. And really, it's just that camaraderie of of those people that that are so great at their jobs that makes all the difference. So. So you have your road family and you have your, your family, like your wife or your kids. So absolutely, absolutely. The question is, who do you spend more time with? Well, it used to be my own family. Now with the virus, it's certainly my real family. I'm going to shift. Hey, Sooner, I'd like for you to kind of maybe address this question. What's the most fun for you? And doing these these shows, these tours that you design. It's so funny because it's actually the exact same thing for me. I love the people. I love meeting and collaborating with so many different individuals. So lucky to be able to do that. And also just to like touch on what Marty said a few minutes ago. There's nothing like the energy of thousands of people coming together to experience that live music and production at the same time. It's addictive. That's one of my favorite parts of any production experience is that first night when the house lights go down and you're nervous and freaked out, but also super excited to see this thing that you've been just pouring your soul into come alive. So, so, Marty, obviously based on the scale and the size of the tours, what is the thing that jazz's you most about touring? I'm 100% in agreement with your other two guests. I the camaraderie of the people. You know, when we talk about this often, it's the family. You know, you talk about your road family, and that's what it truly is. You know, like Omar, some of the people I've worked with, including Omar, you know, I've worked with for 10 or 15, 20 years, and it is by far the comradery that keeps us going. You know, I also think that the other thing is the sense of accomplishment, whether you're doing a stadium tour or an arena tour, whether you're doing them in the best of conditions or the worst of conditions, you know, you get that show up, you call the house lights, the fans start screaming, and you know, everybody that is on that tour had a little part to make that happen every night that, you know that that always gets to me when the when you can do it for the fans and make it a dream for them. You know, I know a lot of people that are completely jazzed by whichever artists they're totally into, and it means so much to the audience. And when these artists go around and hit a number of cities around the US and the world, that that it makes such a difference. And people can be like, cult like. So what do you think the touring industry will, will change as a result of all the stuff that we're experiencing now? When we come back, will the rules be different or will when we come back, will that really have had to change to so we can go back to some sense of the way we used to do it. So I'm throwing this to Omar. I think definitely there's going to be changes, and I certainly can can agree with Marty's timeline that that it could not see any shows until next year. But I think in my opinion that that, that if there's a chance that an artist will go out, even if it's every other seat or half the people come to the arena and this and that, I think people will come to see the bands and acts that they love, even in that limited capacity. So I sense some of that will happen. But regular and major tours. I totally agree with Marty from before that it's not till next year. Absolutely. I would say from a production side, less definitely. There's going to be changes. I see us having to travel when we go, you know, later this year, next year, whatever. We're going to probably have to have some medical personnel on tour with us. Maybe not a doctor, but, you know, like on a movie set, an RN or someone like that, obviously the arenas will will have some checks and things in place when you enter the building. But us as the tour, we're going to have to have our own scanners and thermometers and if you will, around the the artist dressing room compound and backstage. And we're going to, you know, we're going to have to be figuring out ways to disinfect the busses, you know, and we're going to have to travel with maybe that or whomever it is with a portable COVID testing rig that if someone gets the virus that that they can be sent home immediately to, to early detection. So definitely, definitely there's going to be changes and there's certainly going to need to be medical personnel brought out, especially for the next I think couple of years. So so take that same concept sooner and starts thinking about will your show design actually change as a function of this in any way? Do you see that that the design has to change or is the design retained? What are your thoughts? I mean, for now, like basically artists typically want to see a different design for every album cycle that they take out. So I don't think it's going to be necessarily that we keep the same design going every single tour. I'm sure that they're going to want to continue to keep that creative collaboration going from like, for me, design wise, I probably I'm going to try to stick to stuff off the shelf as much as possible. So I think it's important that vendors aren't having to sub rent here in order to make a massive lighting package happen. So in the past, in recent years, I've been accepting a lot of substitutes anyway. Like I'll just have my large profile spot chosen and I'll say, okay, it could be this one, this one, this one, or this one depending on what vendor. But I'll continue that so that there's not as much sub rental going on. And also just trying to use set pieces, repurpose set pieces that are already on the shelf. That way things don't have to be built because it's a pretty massive amount of money that an artist has to put up front in order to build that stuff. So trying to not make them as bespoke as I love, but yeah, trying to repurpose. So so you're going to do more with less, so to speak to, to try to find those efficiencies. And so and Marty, do you think the shows will be as big. No, not at all. I mean, just I think yesterday or the day before yesterday, Live Nation came out with a letter to all the agencies and basically asking that all the artists are going to take a cut in their guarantees. Well, less money for the artists, I think means less production, less cost. I also agree with Omar. I think we we face challenges ahead, especially from the medical standpoint. You know, we put 8 to 12 people on a tour bus on a 45ft tour bus. And so I definitely think that, you know, medical personnel, I think we're going to have to do testing, whether it's every show day. And then we face a question, what happens if a person on a bus is found positive? Do we have to send the whole bus home? So, you know, there are challenges ahead for us. And absolutely. Do you think artists will consider doing maybe multiple nights in a smaller venue than to try to cover the number of people that want to see the show versus going to a large arena? Omar, do you think that would be a scenario that will happen, or do you think you know that's not likely? You know, it's that's really a tough one to answer. Less in certain instances, yes, a bit of that can be accomplished. But at the same time that then increases the or doubles almost, if you will, the production costs for the band to be on the road twice as long to do that many shows. So it's a real catch 22. But like Marty was saying earlier, I think it's going to be lower ticket prices and probably multiple nights it all. It all depends. It's a tough one to answer, but I guess my answer would be I think there'll be a little bit of it, but but not a huge amount of it. And Marty, what are your thoughts on that? I think at this point all options are going to be looked at by artists. I think, you know, to get that, they're going to have to figure out how to get them back on the road, how to get them back economically and what makes the most financial sense. So I think all options at this point are going to be wide open. Interesting. So take me into the future Sooner. Take me into the future. What will touring look like a year from now? Because a year from now, you know, I have to think the world's going to look a little bit better. I hope so. Okay, we all do. That is a great answer. Great answer. Let's hope that happens. Let's hope we're all looking at a better world year now because dance stuff's got to change. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's really hard to be able to put on the the old time again and try to look forward at this. I honestly, I just I guess I'm going to just answer it in that I hope so I hope that we are back to normal. I hope that the live concert industry is booming and that everybody is working again, making money, being able to feed their families and pay their mortgages, that would be great. I just don't know, unfortunately. You know, like how I there'll be a lot of safety precautions, you know, that going into a concert venue to see a show is going to be different until we get a vaccine. So what that looks like, I can't exactly specify, but I sure hope that we're at least watching our favorite bands on stage doing some cool stuff, you know, playing some great. I am on board for the cool stuff for sure. Yeah, so. So, Omar, a year from now, will we be talking about a tour that you're on doing? And maybe we have some different protocol, but you'll be out. How do I say getting the lights off and people screaming and and that energy that was described as the thing that kind of rocks everyone's world. I absolutely I really think that's going to be the case. People will will if, you know, if an artist is going to do a tour and he has obviously they have that fan base. People will come. If you if you say you have to go through these detectors, you have to wear a mask to come and see my show, this and that. I think people will come. And the shows, you know, like like Marty was saying, they will be smaller because of costs and so on. Ticket prices probably will be lower, artist guarantees probably lower and stuff like that. So my answer is a very optimistic yes, that in some way, shape or form we will be doing tours. We will figure out how to keep, you know, eight people on a bus and, and somewhat, you know, try to keep people healthy and get back to the get back to what we do. I think everyone is going to have to learn to live with this and adapt. We can't just turn a blind eye to it either, but we're going to have to learn to live with it, adapt and make things happen to ensure people safety as best we can. Sure. And Marty, do you share the view of Sooner is optimistic view or Omar's optimistic view? What is your view a year from now? And hopefully, as you said earlier, you're not in retirement. I'm going to be the I'm going to be the pessimist out of the out of the three of us. We did need one and we have one today. So you're officially hired as the pessimist. Here's what my concern is. My concern is for all the men and women who work in the touring industry right now. And, you know, we're going to see some attrition. We're going to definitely lose some great men and women who just can't wait a year to go tour again. And that's really my concern. You know, I hope my hope is that they all hang in there and try to wait till we get back up and running and that they'll come back and join us on tour. But, you know, I understand, you know, people have to have bills to pay. They have to pay mortgages, they have to pay rent, they have to they have car payments. And, you know, at this point, they're probably going to have to do what they have to do just to make some money until they can get back to work again. So I'm hopeful that that they come back. But I know there's going to be some attrition in our business for sure. You know what? At least from all of you, you share some positive view that we're coming back to this. It's just about time frame. It's about changing the approach of how we do it with maybe some safety precautions. But there's one thing that is common among all the voices on this call is that the light's turning down, the audience screams, and that energy that comes provides a cathartic release and an experience for those fans that can never, really ever go away. So this is like a temporary setback for the touring industry. But, you know, as the through any setback in time, we've always come over and overcome these obstacles and it'll be amazing to see what the other side looks like. I want to thank all three of you. You're all super amazing, talented, and if I went through your resumes, I would have the who's who of the greatest artists in the world for each one of you. And I'm proud to be able to have you on my podcast today, and I look forward to working with you all in some capacity on a tour in the future. And I want to thank you, Omar, I'd like to thank you, Sooner, and I'd like to thank you, Marty. Y'all are great, awesome people and I look forward to a better touring future for all of us. So thank you again. I have one less. I got one thing to have before you let us all go, and I think I can speak for all of us. Is that, as Omar would say, the guys and the gals are the men and women who work in the touring industry are some of the strongest, resilient, smartest people you know around. And I just want them to be hopeful and hang in there and hopefully we'll get back to work and we'll be doing shows again. So, Marty, I accept your inspiration and I will I will counter it with some perspiration. And ultimately, you know, I guess you have to have just a little bit of optimism. You know, the world will find its way and we'll find our way back and we'll get on the road, back on tour and bring happiness to all those people again. Thank you all, I appreciate it. You all are amazing and have a great day and be well. Thanks. Bye bye everyone. Good to talk to everybody. Bye bye bye bye. Bye bye bye. You know, as I think about my conversation today with these three touring professionals, I really got a sense that while we're down and out now, we will be back. And the touring business has gone through a lot of different gyrations, and it might look slightly different when we come back the other side. But touring is here to stay. This is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead.