THE RETURN OF TECHNICAL LABOR

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have three amazing guests. I have Greg Decker, who's the president of Production Support Services. I have Bobby Harris, who's the president of Turnkey Event Labor. And I also have Gene Martinez. He's the president of Audio Visual Technical Support. Guys, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us, guys. Today we have three experts. They all run labor companies in the US. And I'm glad they're joining us today. We're going to have a discussion about technical and physical labor for all the shows that we do. And as we talk about the return to live, you know, there are so many questions about where will the crews come from? Have the crews changed to alternative jobs? Will we have the skill labor to deliver the shows that we do day in and day out under normal circumstances pre-COVID? So this show is completely dedicated to talking about the technical and all the elements of labor that we're going to have to deal with. So my first question, I'm going to throw it to Gene Martinez. Gene, what would you describe the situation with labor in the live event industry today? Well, we've been lucky that we've had some events. We've had some live events here in Texas, and getting the labor hasn't been as difficult as I thought it would be. A lot of them are coming back as hungry as possible. They want to get back in the field. They want to get back at what they, you know, they do for a living. You know, some of them have gotten part time jobs doing things that they really don't want to. So I haven't had any really issues on the on the labor support in Texas or New Orleans. So, you know, I look forward for when everyone has opened up and everything is convention centers are moving again. Hotels are are up back up to par. So at that point I'm having no issues right now, especially in the in the live event industry. I have a lot of leads who are, you know, will do hand work. Now. They just want to keep viable in this business. Got it. Okay, I'm throwing this same question to Greg Decker, who Greg's based in Las Vegas. And Greg, what is the situation that you can describe for us for live event labor? And how do you see this as the live event business returns? Well, they're they're allowing limited capacity. And we haven't been doing too many shows at this point. I know there's some of the hotels have had smaller events come May 1st they're turning over to jurisdiction from the governor to local. And I think we're going to start seeing a more opening of all the hotels and facility. And I know there's a large show booked here at the convention center. We're the concrete that everyone's excited to, to be a part of. Do you think the the people are still available that are and willing to work in Las Vegas, or do you think they have actually found alternative means of support for their families in the form of jobs and other other things to keep them occupied? That's a good question. I believe there'll be a certain amount of people that have taken a retirement, maybe gone out with Social Security. I knew some of a couple of my employees have moved in with family out of the city, waiting for business. Come back. I believe that when we do get rolling, they're not going to be gigantic shows. They're going to be smaller, and I think it'll give a chance to kind of rebuild back up from that point. Got it. Okay, Bobby, would you pine on this question of what do you think is the situation with the live event labor in our event business? What about are those people still available as we are starting to, you know, kindle the flame of shows? I will I'm speaking to you today in Orlando. The Orange County Convention Center is completely open and they're doing shows and and shows are being transferred to Orlando from other markets because Florida is an open state right now. What are your thoughts, Bobby? You know, Les, this is a great question. And it is a cause for concern for us being in California. We haven't seen gathering to more than five people in over a year and a half. So we do know most of these people, especially utilities and things like that, they're not able to take a year off of work with no reserves. So we're hoping to, through management, be able to take care of the needs that we have. But we do see that skilled labor is going to be questionable. Even the guys that have the knowledge and experience haven't wrapped a cable in over a year. So as a lot of our companies we work with have had to scale back on their staff, so they'll be looking for outside labor even more. So we have a big role to fill. Coming up towards the fall for us is what we're expecting. So. So that brings me to the second question I have, which is really kind of when the business returns, we're talking about demand, when all of a sudden the shows are returning and the people are booked, ballroom space and the productions return, you know, will those people exist? And that big question mark is, you know, when you think about a person who hasn't wrapped a cable in a year, you know, if you're a skilled tech, whether it's an audio position, a lighting position, a video position, a switcher operator, a spider operator, you know, one of the many things a lot of people are going to be rusty. So not only are we going to have high demand, we're going to have technicians that may not have been using those skills for some period of time. How do we overcome this? You know, this obstacle, you know, you're going to have, you know, the phones are going to ring for people are going to want people, you know, what suggestion is there now other than book early so you can get your people? Well, it's really going to boil down to training through the management staff. You know, that we're going to have to deal with and and probably overbooking crews at that. You know, I mean, he's management. I don't go out on many events. But what I do and try to throw down a ten hour a day, it's a long one. So not only we're dealing with that, just that rustiness, that just getting back to the workflow we're concerned about. So this same question to Greg. Greg, what are your thoughts about you know, demand is going to return. And kind of the thought I know that big show you mentioned in Vegas, the world of concrete is in June. But let's say that show goes very well. And being that I was recently in Vegas, I think the world will come back to some form of normal. The show will press on and people will have the courage to start to book and schedule and confirm shows, especially for the fall, September, October, November, December, you know, how do you feel about the situation with skilled labor, being rusty and being able to find enough of it because you would think there's so much pent up demand? Well, unless the whole town fills up at the same time and all the shows are, there's enough supply of labor to be able to fill the needs. I'm not so concerned about technical people losing, being rusty. They have rehearsals. I believe that kind of like riding a bike. You either have the skill set before you didn't. I'm more concerned about the physical attributes, like the gentleman before was saying, and that you start hitting 10 to 16 hour days and everyone's been kind of sitting around cooped up at home. I think it's physically going to be draining, which could cause some mental drag. So, so, you know, working those really long hours and having your conditioning for that and having done that on some form of proximity of a regular basis. So the first time we get a show and someone has to work 15 hours, it's going to be really taxing on the crew. And we people that are booking crews are going to have to be cognizant of this, and it's going to be mental fatigue and also physical fatigue. So you kind of have to deal with both sides of this. You know it's an interesting thing. Jean, what is your thought on the idea of people being rusty and, and, you know, demand returning and and filling all the calls. Well, we've we've discussed this. And for me, one of my full time hires will be a, a training supervisor, but also a recruiter. I need a recruiter. I'm in Texas. I have four cities that are solid when it comes to shows and people wanting to come have events here. So for me, it's like Bobby says, training. You have, you know, we're in a service industry. Nothing changes because service is important. So for us we want to bring people in. So given the technical experience, but also teach them service, ways of doing our business. And rusty there's going to be some of that. But I think the long hours are going to be a little difficult. But for me is I've already reached out. I want to find someone that I can get to, to recruit from utilities to leads to whatever, so that I can feel those fill those positions when the time comes. So for me, the next three months is getting those two people on board. A recruiter and a trainer got it. So guys, we we deal in both nonunion and union labor and you know will will that impact that happens to nonunion will be the same for union labor. Will they have the same issues or different issues. And I'll throw this to Greg, I think a lot of the same issues, regardless of how someone's paid, I think we're all dealing with the same challenges. I'm blessed with the local here. They have a large membership, so as long as again, the whole town isn't filled up with shows, I feel confident we can fill the positions and move forward. Got it. And I same question to Bobby. Bobby, I don't know if you deal in the in the form of union labor at all or not, but I didn't know whether or not union labor in your world will get impacted. Yeah. Just a green with Greg. We do deal with it, but they'll have the same challenges we do. Once you're back to consistent amount of work, it's going to be hard to fill large calls for the moment, but we'll make the turnaround. All right. I like your confidence. If anything, I like hearing your confidence. Okay. I have a different question. And this is to Gene. Will labor cost rise to where it was similarly for skilled positions. Because, you know, the question is are there going to be enough people out there that have the skill set and, and will they raise their rates because they didn't have a year where they got to deploy? What are your thoughts on that about labor rates going back right now, I'm not seeing people ask you for more more money. The freelancers or subcontractors, they're not asking for money. I'm not reducing my prices. I can't I gotta you know, your insurances don't change, your taxes don't change. So when it comes to raising the prices, I have a feeling in the fourth quarter of this year and next year, those prices will will raise at least a 10% increase on your higher end technicians, on your utilities. You know, I don't think there needs to be. I'm going to try not to. Of course, being in Texas, I don't have to worry about a lot of the union rules in New Orleans. I don't have to worry about the union rules and and things like that. So I think on your lead positions you're going to see an increase. I'm going to try my best not to increase as much as possible this year. But the fourth quarter may be a different story. Got it. Okay, Greg, do you share his thought on the on rates or not? What are your thoughts? Rates are going up okay. Just about every local I've dealt with there. Even though there's a pandemic going on there, trying to do what's best for their membership, and everyone struggled through the last year, so they're going to try to make out the next couple of years. So, so and let me ask this question. So I'm very specific. Do you see a difference between skilled and non skilled labor. Because what Gene was referring to is he sees skilled labor maybe going up. Do you feel all labors going up. Or do you think there's a preference to skilled or not skilled. Well, because I strictly deal with union. It's across the board. Oh I gotcha. So, so because you're. I guess primarily that's your source of labor talent. And so the union is just going to set new rates and they're going to be across the board. Bobby, would you opine as to rates. Do you feel like demand might out out work supply in the fourth quarter, kind of what Gene was saying and that might that have impact on rates for skilled labor and unskilled. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with it's all about supply and demand. If we come back hot and heavy and there's no there's no full time staff with a lot of our staging companies and we're getting many, many calls. These freelancers are booked, they're going to up their rates. And then we have to increase based on that. We're not planning on adjusting rates for as long as possible, knowing that the guys have been affected. But so as a production companies and the staging companies, and they're going to be looking for their best margins too. So we're holding as strong as we can for as long as we can. And I think this stagehand utility will stay where it is. But technical labor kind of just depends on how things roll out and the demand of those individuals. Got it. So this question is to Gene, and how will being a freelance technical person for our live event industry, how will it be different than it was pre-pandemic? Is there anything that will be different or it will all be the same? Oh no, it's slightly be different. Of course, just with, you know, the PPE issues with products and being messed up, that part will be different. You know, they're going to be concerned. You know, there's going to be some concern in the beginning. But in Texas, anyone can get the vaccine shot right now. So when it comes to the side of of vaccines right now, anyone from 16 up can get that vaccine. We're encouraging our freelancers and our and our contractors to do it. It's good for not just themselves. You know, you don't want to play Russian roulette. You want to get you know, you want to get that shot. You want to get the you know, you want to be comfortable being around other people and customers and production teams because you don't know if where they're coming from. So in that aspect, I think there's there's a change. And we need to to really as labor coordinates, we can't push it on them because legally I don't think you can do that, but we want to encourage them. Hey, it's for your own good, for your family. And that's how I look at it. You know, it's interesting, Gene, you brought up a really kind of a sticky wicket, kind of a subject. I mean, I got my vaccination already and I encourage everyone to get vaccinated. I don't. And there's a whole group of anti-vaxxers out there of people who who probably will never get it. But I'm I'm going to throw this question to Bobby. Bobby, what if a client called you and said, I want to make sure the entire crew is vaccinated, so then you'd have to go through your list of all your people that you supply. And then and I have a call for a camera person, but they have to be vaccinated. I mean, how do you feel about that? And will that be the reality we're going to face? Being in California will always go with whatever California mandates as a California employer. That being said, we know a lot of our technical, skilled individuals have already sent us their vaccination cards, so we are keeping those on file. We know that many of them are anxious to get back to work, knowing that that might be something that could hold them back. So, so so I was going to say, if I'm a labor customer and I said to you, Bobby, I need the whole crew to be vaccinated, then I'm depending upon you to select a crew of people that, that that meet that requirement. Do you feel like this is something that most technical people in our industry will adopt? You know, I don't I don't think so, because being in California, I don't even think we are legally allowed to ask because it's a personal choice on their on their health. So, you know, we'll have to we'll cross that bridge. I'd have to put some thought into that one when it does inevitably come across. Okay. All right. I will ask the same question to Greg. This is that crazy question of vaccinations. And, you know, if a client says to you, I want my crew vaccinated, is that something? How do you broach that subject? Well, I would reach out to ever I felt was qualified and ask the question point blank, have you got the vaccination or not? Before I offer up the job and we do our best. We here have tried to encourage everyone to do it. The state is even trying to encourage it in the city again because shows that are coming up. They want it to go well and they want people to feel safe. I'm more concerned about when you have traveling production personnel, what is going to be enough flights and how that kind of works around, and when the airline industry is going to kind of kick back into full gear to be able to get everybody to see these shows. I concur with you. The air travel is an ultimately a must have for us to move forward. There are no shows that we can't get the audience to the venue, that we're going to just do a virtual show, and God knows we've done lots of those. And can I interject some of this, please, gene, please. Here's a question I have because it's come up, I've done some events in New Orleans. And of course they just want at this at that point they just wanted COVID testing. They wanted everyone on the group to be tested, which was no big deal. I got the crew there. We they, they, they paid for that cost. The end user did. But I did have a customer come to me this past week asking, hey, what's your COVID? You know what? You're testing responsibilities and things like that. And I tell I really the two times I've had to do it, the end user paid for that resource. What's everyone's thought about moving forward? Well, Gene, that's an interesting question because I am sitting in Orlando headquarters and in our studio in the building next door. We have a production going on, and I cannot walk in because I didn't go get a COVID rapid test today. So fortunately, at the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando, they have you drive up and you can get a rapid test and it's free. But we've done all kinds of productions where in the studios or even on site, where COVID testing has been an option. And the question is, can you make it mandatory? And if you're putting on an event, that's going to be one of the event organizers piece. But I would tell you, the entire crew for this production we're working on had to get COVID tested or else they were not allowed to work. So, Bobby, have you had any experiences with this? Yeah, we've been getting more and more. We've had two of those same thing with larger crews. They've asked everybody to be tested and they, they, they build back. But we've also started including a COVID compliance officer in our staffing that mandates all the COVID rules a six feet apart, the the hand sanitizing stations that go there before production and stay after production, because we've seen those possibly becoming a need. You know, Greg, have you had anything like that in your world? COVID testing, the COVID compliance officer we have personnel to work here that can cover that. COVID compliance officer the couple events we've done, the venues have kind of dictated to the end clients what the policy had to be. Aria they were requiring a blood test on the first day of load in and and every, every few days we're requiring it and they'd get a response then 24 hours. So I think it's going to be more venue driven and state driven as far as what rules and what we're going to be allowed to do. Well, I will say, I think there's a high expectations, at least in the short term, that any type of gathering will have that COVID compliance officer, you know, a lot of their work is done prior to getting on site, setting expectations with the crew, maybe the presenters, maybe the production team. But also, I think what people are also doing is trying to create responsible production environments. And by doing this either daily test or people come in with a test, I mean, I'm sure it's not 100% foolproof. Even with the vaccines, they say they're 96% or 95%. You know, they're not 100%. But I think we're trying to mitigate risk. And I think it's also good for optics to make sure people feel safe because they either see the handwashing stations, the center or the masks. They see the temperature checkers. You know, I think these are all parts of a big, you know, puzzle that, you know, we have to present a common front, that health and welfare is such an important element for gatherings. And and we have to be part of the solution. You know, guys, I want to know kind of a this is like a wrap up question. When do you think demand and shows will return? I'm going to throw this to Greg first. Greg, when do you think in your crystal ball, based on the inquiries you're getting and you're primarily based out of Las Vegas and God knows there's enough venues in Las Vegas, I think it's the number one largest city with the most number of venues or exhibit, exhibition, trade show, convention space. What is your crystal ball tell you about the return of events? I think we're going to start seeing them happen as early as the first part of summer, and I think it will gradually pick up, and I expect 2022 to be a barn burner. I think it will get back to almost 2019. Wow, I love hearing that. You know what? That is only eight months away. Yeah, I feel real positive here. I've talked to multiple people that have had other clients, especially at the convention center, talking about they build a new facility here, additional facility here. And the clients have been all along this process reaching out and finding out when they can come. Got it. So so there's this enormous amount of pent up demand. And we've had about, I don't know, 14 or 16 months where there's, you know, some, some kind of lack of shows and people didn't have a lack of need to communicate, to share their products or recognize their employees or, or do association or gatherings. Bobby. Same question. Crystal ball. Look into it and tell me what you think the future looks like. I think our audience wants to know. You know, certainly we see the demand. We've watched these festivals in the UK sell out in 48 hours of 133,000 people. We see people wanting to be back in large gatherings coming into summer. We'll see things trickling in by fall. We're expecting to be back to what we would consider consistent work. That being said, I think a lot is going to determine on what the event is. Trade shows will come back sooner than smaller corporations demanding their employees to be there. So I think ones that drive people to want to be there, your CES and your Seimas, like Greg would deal with. We'll see those coming back quickly and trade shows. Got it. And Gene Martinez, would you look into your crystal ball, please, and share with us what you think the world looks like. And when demand comes back for our event business? Well, for the event, the full event, I'm telling you right now, March has been very we've been very blessed. We've had very lot of labor support, a lot of events going on. April is very busy for us in every city except New Orleans right now, because I don't think New Orleans has opened the convention center. But we're very busy in April, early May. And then I think from September through the fourth quarter, we'll we'll see an uptick. We know that we've seen RFPs come out for those on the show side of our, our, our company. And of course, in 2022, we're hoping things, you know, if we can get I'd be happy with 50% of my 2019 revenue if I could. But of course I want more, but I just don't know. But 2022 should be getting back to normal. You know, it's great to hear what you all think and opine about the future. And it seems like every one of you, individually and collectively are are very positive. Things can only get better. And, you know, even when people are restricted and travel, they're still going to be I think, Greg, what you mentioned was a smaller meeting event space, and we'll probably be doing that hybrid event. So there'll be the the live smaller event, and then there'll be the virtual piece and the event will continue to happen. And I think 2022, I think your term, Greg was a barn burner or Byron buster or whatever, whatever the term you used, I completely agree with you. I think we are going back to work. I think our industry is going to reawaken. And I think it's it kind of revolves around the C-suite, when corporations, when they feel comfortable to go ahead and start that planning process in some events, you know, they need a month or two months or three months to actually plan. Some events take six months to plan because of their size and scale. But once people put a stake in the ground and say, we're going to do it, I think we're going to all go back to rocking and rolling and having fun and and doing what we love. And so guys, I appreciate all three of you joining Greg, Bobby and Gene, you are all experts in your field of providing talented labor for all kinds of applications and live event space, and I look forward to seeing you on a ballroom, in a convention center, in a trade show floor, somewhere in a theater where we can all be seeing trucks being unloaded and AV gear being set up, and to better times ahead. This is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Thank you guys. Good job. Thank you. Thank you.