WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM THE MEETING BUSINESS IN 2022?

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg on The Road Ahead. Today I have two amazing guests. I have Rod Mickels. He's the co-owner of InVision, and I have Todd Street, who's the owner of Todd Street. Guys, welcome to the show. And today we are going to be talking about 2022. We're going to be talking about the meeting event business. What can we expect? We can go through the trials and tribulations of 2021 and where we've been and, you know, but really everyone wants to kind of focus on what we think the future looks like. So I'm going to throw the first question to Rod and Rod, we're in the return of live events. Are we in your opinion? Good day guys. You know, we we really are seeing uncertainty from people. And so where people were saying we want to do this, this, this in 2022, we're seeing them rethink that. So all of the programs that we have in place right now that are live are staying live in Q1, Q2, but people are pushing things back, and they're asking whether we do proposals and budgets to say, let's do two. One is if we go live and one if we don't go live. So I think there's more hesitation. And some things are pushing back to Q3 and Q4. All right. So so one and two is maybe a little uncertain. And Q3 and Q4 are full steam ahead. I wouldn't say full steam, but it's it's there. There's planning. More planning. Yes, exactly. Got it. Okay, Todd, what are your thoughts on this? Take me into 2022 and maybe what do you see happening. And we're seeing very much the same outcomes as rod was just mentioning. I think in Q1, given the current spike, we're seeing a lot of ambivalence and caution as far as which way they want to go. We are seeing full steam ahead towards the end of February and at the end of Q3 and forward. So again, with our proposals as well, we are seeing a lot of ask for two considerations virtual and or live not it. Okay. So this is back to rod. Rod how do you define the new normal. Like what is the new normal. We've been through two years of pandemics. We've been we're coming back and a customer says to you, what is the new normal and how do you maybe define that? It's a common question, and I think we've all learned a lot through this. This time, I think for for what we're seeing, the new normal is you're not going to see those huge, huge live events. You know, there's tens of thousands or thousands and thousands that events will become live events will become smaller. You know, the concurrent virtual and live. I think they tried it and it's really not working. I think I'll talk later about that. But, you know, I think that's something that we should look at. But too is that we the new normal for for us is that it's not so much about the, the experience, which is important, but it's about the content. You know, the content is king. And, you know, getting those live events where there's lots of people are now even virtual. There's bigger audiences. I think they're finding out that's not how many people you can get. But is it the right people now? Audience acquisitions key. Having the right people in the room or online with you is is is number one. And also the new normal is, I think going to be measurement where you know what is happening. We can we tended to shoot in the dark at night, you know, in the past. But I think the measurement will be key. And lastly, I think, you know, we found that because of this longer campaigns is key also that it's not just those four days in Vegas. It's going to be preprogramed messaging throughout the year. And to me, that's the new normal that we have going forward. Got it. You know, you made a comment about the the content. It sounds like we have to alter the approach toward content for our audience. And if their virtual content probably has to be slightly different than if they're live in a room where you've got an audience. Exactly, exactly. Todd, what are your thoughts on the new normal? I see a lot of efficiencies going forward. Content is king, and when you have the opportunity to present content in an effective way, virtually, I think. A lot of organizations are seizing that opportunity, whether it's through robust communication plans or training, is very much alive in the virtual world now because of its efficacy and efficiencies as well. So to Rod's point, the live event is becoming a little bit more contained, a little bit more structured, and it's more of a follow up and messaging that is required word that the key executives want to share in front of their people, in front of their live audience. Do you do you think that the key executives now feel like an obligation to have live events, or do you feel like it's one of those things that they're on the fence? I don't think it's as much of an obligation as much of as a desire. I think the heads of sales and the directors of marketing and the presidents, they want to get in front of their people and connect with them in a very visceral way. And while that's a possibility in the virtual world, it's not the same as face to face human contact. Leslie reject. The thing is, I'm curious to ask Todd is to is I feel that our some of the senior executives that we work with are kind of stuck in the past. Like, I'll show up on site and I'll have a thumb drive, you know, that's what I'll do. And that's that's a thing of the past. We can't do that. You know, we need that content well in advance. Are you seeing that to top where some of those executives are? Have that mentality of last minute or do you are they kind of conforming to the new standard of faster? I think they're planning a little bit more now. I think that's one of the changes that we're going to start seeing the need to plan in advance of what has been communicated, eliminating redundancies, abbreviated keynotes in general session and delivering those key messages in the general session where it's critical. So I think that they've learned their lesson, so to speak, in not preparing on a virtual, in a virtual, you know, presentation, because they're so used to the Zoom meetings and they think that it can just go straight forward. But now I think they're reconsidering it and prioritizing the time to prepare in advance for a live meeting. Yeah, I was at that two time. It's a great point that I found that our virtual programs are getting shorter. We're used to be like it's two full days of virtual and now it's it's two hours, maybe three hours. And that's back to content. We've got to cram more content into smaller. So you have to be more succinct. Is this is this because you can't keep the audience engaged for any long durations of time? So we're going to have to make the show shorter because we feel like we can keep engagement for that short period of time, and we'll keep them connected. Because as we go for these longer meetings over many days, you have you have interruptions and you have life and the feeding the dog and you're watching remotely, etc.. Yeah, we've been trained over the last year and a half or two that, you know, it's this or going to do laundry. It's it's minutes away. Right. And so we have to start having programs that are more succinct. You know, the hour long presentation from a CEO is gone. And that kind of reflect, reflect back to your question about what's the new norm is shorter, more succinct. And, you know, we're a Netflix now society or Zoom society where I want the content, where I went, where I want, where it is and in the manner I want it. So I want to be in the park on an iPhone digesting content. And so we have to be able to do the new normal be that is making it available to anybody, anyplace, anytime. Right, right. I totally agree. I think the Netflix analogy is very apropos. I also believe that it's what executives or key executives have learned, or presenters of any sort is the need to deliver key salient points, as opposed to sharing everything that they know in a live arena and into the right audiences to right. If you've got, I think before we did one to many and we have to get to really targeted messaging and, you know, it's through audience acquisitions, who's in the audience and how should we talk to them? So I think that's key to right. You're even seeing it with a podcast. What information is, you know, is valuable. We're doing certain campaigns on LinkedIn live as well. And it's got to be valued to the viewer. So it's yes, it is about engagement, but value encourages engagement. Guys, you guys are I'm going to take this in a slightly different direction. You had some great thoughts. I was just going to let you guys continue because two guys that are talking about stuff they know a lot about. So this is my next question. This is to Todd. Todd, what are the if you had to come up with 2 or 3 of the greatest challenges for 2022? What would you like them? I can tell you personally, as we have crews at the Consumer Electronics Show this week and other shows and our crews are faced with so-and-so has COVID and now we have to replace them. This is a never ending, no win battle. And it's it seems like it has diminishing returns. Our industry has a smaller pool of people, and this endemic or pandemic is really throwing us for a loop. But if you had to identify from your perspective, 2022. What are the 2 or 3 top greatest challenges? What would they be? From our perspective, I think the greatest challenge that we've overcome and clients have seen the value is in the agenda design and in also preparing. Like rod began this podcast with talking about the ask for two scenarios, one virtual and one live. The same very much holds true at a live event currently with our production teams, because the need for duplicity is very prevalent because it's not only the attendees who are challenged, you know, who may not be able to attend or the presenters, and we have to swap somebody in. I think there's planning for that, just as we're planning as well for backups for our positions or if we look forward to the future. There's the potential of having two teams setting up broadcast studios in the venue itself so they can have a live presentation, and then they can also go and record a virtual presentation as well. Got it. Okay. All right Ron, now turn it to you. Greatest challenges of 2022. I got I got a few is one is uncertainty. When we've led in the past for staff, we had some certainty think to things and now we thought we were coming out of this and I'm the claim and like, oh my gosh, now we have new things. And so I think that's the number one thing is uncertainty. We just don't know if clients are asking for that too. Like what do you think? And like I can't I can't do that ball. You didn't get a crystal ball. Doctor Fauci didn't send me the crystal ball. Yeah. The other thing is I think budgets are being scrutinized more and more, procurement playing a bigger role, and our costs are going up. So, you know, a piece of plywood is forex that it used to be or staff is more. And so I think that's happening where we also got to call yesterday from someone said I've got a program on January 12th, you know, can you do that? And it's like oh my God, no, it's the fuzes are getting shorter and shorter for us and that brings its own challenges. And I'd love to hear Todd's point on this is staffing. You know I think we're trying to get staff. Staff is tough to get out there as well as right have the right staff. One of my clients said to me, I have a port of call with her, and she said, I have a bunch of event managers on staff and I really need content and strategy coordinators. And so it was interesting that their needs are changing too, because we talked about earlier. Content is key, and so we need people to be able to track that. And we've been lucky to be able to have that and to get that new talent that we've got that aligns to that because it's about the messaging. So that's to me is the uncertainty as we have. Right. But I'm curious to understand. Do you believe that these are newfound challenges to look forward to in 2022? Or do you feel as if these are lessons learned that we're applying now moving forward? I think for us, we're constantly trying to get the content message story out. It's not about, you know, speeds and feeds, it's about the content. So we're trying to align our people and our our clients around that content about strategy. Aren't you guys essentially storytellers? You're telling the customers message in front of a live, a virtual, a hybrid, whatever the message is and the the the better your success rate is, the better that message is received. And they get some level of measurable engagement. And and yeah, we're trying we're trying to move audiences from A to B, right. If their objective is to have X, that's what we're all trying to do is through a story, get them to move an audience. So okay, I'm moving on. The next question, I'm going to throw this to Todd, our clients. What size or scale of events are they? I think rod had mentioned they were going to be smaller, but like, are we talking in a 500 person meeting, a 1000 person? You know what? What's the size of any type of live engagement? You're thinking you're at least hearing from your customers? I think it comes down to confidence as well. And I think that looking forward, a lot of our clients are looking to engage in a live way, and I think they're also looking to segment their audiences as required. But segmenting, meaning, having the appropriate people that they really need to connect with, live at that live event. And then it's also very much to what Rod's talking about is, how are you delivering that content? Are you doing it in advance of are you going to do it only at the live event, which is a little bit more antiquated, antiquated, or, you know, what is the plan? And I and I see more of a plan approach moving forward with all of this. So I think the customers want the executives want to get in front of their appropriate audiences where they feel it's required and when they feel it's required. And I think it's less about the live because there are so many different options of how to do that now. And I think they've adopted them all. And, you know, to Rod's point, earlier point, I think there's also an efficiency that they've seen and in efficacy that they've seen in how they can reach these audiences with the right content at the right times. So so Rod, this question, throw it to you. Do you you have either a size or scale in mind for your audiences. And I'm going to add a third component. Do you see most shows using a hybrid component. And you know, do you see that as a very prevalent? Yeah, it's tough to say a size because people that had 10,000 people are now looking at 3 to 5000 people, and people that had 1000 are looking at 500. And I just want to highlight something that Todd said and really put a point on that is when this happened. Originally, it was like, we want a virtual program. We would have we would hit as many people as possible. And that's moved to what Todd's talked about, where we're pulling that apart, where maybe beforehand we're doing the breakout session content digest that on your own. Get that out of the way. So the four days in on site is just things that you have to do on site, face to face, and then bring that all together and do a virtual program where you pull all that together into one and at the heck out of it and then deliver it. So, Todd, spot on. That's to me, the future of that. So that will pick smaller audiences and audiences that are really hand-picked to be there instead of like these user conferences where everybody goes, I think it's going to be who needs to be there, how long they have to be there, and what content do they want to to digest into it. Right. I, I concur with you. Right. And that's exactly why I don't want to put a number out there, because I think everybody has learned that there's many ways to reach a large magnitude of people. And if you look to the future, it's no longer that user conference where everybody has to attend to receive that information. They can receive that information on their own time when it's convenient for them if they can't make it. So I think it's less about the endemic issues, and I think people's personal or business schedules are entering more into their decisions of whether or not they need to attend. So. So guys, I have a project I'm doing in Nashville for a client. And, you know, they decided to instead of have their audience show up, they just use that location to be their studio. And we're going to build a studio. We're bringing all the cameras and we're going to record everything. I think it would be a very, very small audience. Do you think clients are coming up as you kind of talked about having two different plans, you know, the the live or the virtual. Do you think there's like a contingency plan on all live events? Todd, do you think this is a standard procedure now? Like if you have a customer saying we're going to do live, but we're going to have a contingency, is that the official like, is there a contingency plan if like someone pops up with COVID or you know, what other contingency plans are happening because we've got so many things we have to worry about the crew, we've got to worry about the attendees, we've got to worry about the production team. And when I say the crew, I'm talking about the technical crew. And then I've got the production team. And, you know, if you use SES as litmus test this week, they're doing arduous testing there. You have to go through the clear app to get in there, giving you a test when you get your badge. I mean, I'm trying to say is they're trying to amp up to make sure that there's what I'll use the term, it appears to have some level of a safe protocol that we can actually gather. Right. I'm sure they cut a day off of the show. So there, you know, they're doing what they have to do. But but what are the contingencies? You think if I missed them? No, not at all. But I think it's very of the moment thinking. And I think this is an endemic and it's here to stay. It will become it will transition into a flu like, you know, endemic. So if we really look forward to the future, I think the greatest challenge is not contingency, but the avoidance of last minute planning and designing equitable experiences for however anybody chooses to attend. So I think at least what we're saying is that clients are moving forward and this is the new normal in our lives, and this is the new normal in how events will be run and what the value of attending that event will become clear to the attendee. So it's less about protocols put in place at this moment. I think that's very like of the moment, because even with all the protocols, people are still coming down with COVID. So I think it's embracing the new normal and sort of avoiding last minute planning. I've seen that as the greatest change as opposed to a contingency plan. Got it. And rod, any other thoughts on contingencies? We have to look at the we said uncertainty before. It's true with right now what we're doing is, you know, test the heck out of it. Do the best that you can, take every precaution that you can and move forward. I think if it's not Omnicron, it's going to be Zumacron. It's going to keep going down the alphabet down till we get to Z. So it's going to it's going to be with us. But I agree it could be mitigated by testing protocols and so that people feel comfortable. And I agree with Todd that people will go who have to go. The day of having ten people go from a company is gone, and they're going to say, you know, these three people really should go to this conference for this reason. And so that'll also dictate smaller audiences. I was going to say, yeah, for sure. If you if you reduce this, the number of people attending. Now if I'm in a trade show, I know trade shows to traditionally have been where you show your products and people do a lot of business at trade shows. That's the, you know, the cornerstone of showing the product and maybe taking orders. And it's a lot harder to reproduce that trade show virtually that experience where you can touch it, feel it, smell it, you know, taste it, whatever. So my next question is, and this is back to Todd, are people ready to travel? Are attendees ready international travelers I mean, you if you watch the news, they sensationalize everything. Some countries are open. How can you plan for any kind of conference that is off of of of different, you know, what's the word? Hemispheres or you know, continents, you know, the international travel component. I had a show that I was going to attend in Thailand, but I don't want to get stuck in Thailand. And for whatever reason, outside of my control, I'm not going to Thailand, I love Thailand. It's wonderful if you haven't been there. But the point I'm trying to say is that attendee travel is so important now. We've got hundreds of flights being canceled on most major airlines and travel has been greatly impacted. My question was originally was are people ready to travel? But then you could get stuck. So what are your thoughts on travel? Because you can't have any conferences with people attending if they can't get there. I think internationally, you know, or anybody, it's a very personal choice that they're making. But I believe a lot of the points that you're bringing forward are part of the considerations of the host of the meetings, whether it's a user conference, they're considering how many people are comfortable, you know, they're trying to forecast, but and also providing alternate ways for people to receive the content where have the experience. But so not not as many people are going to go if they have to travel across the world. I haven't seen any company mandate people's attendance. I've seen them leave it to their individual choices. And I think the corporate world and the way brands want to share their stories has become very diversified, and they understand that this is human nature and there are personal fears or personal reasons why people don't want to travel for whatever there are at home and they're accommodating it. So I think it's the natural evolution of the events industry to assume that here's something of value, and this is how we're going to present it. And whoever feels that it's safe and comfortable by attending, then they will. But I don't know, rod, have you seen anybody mandating attendance? No. I am going back to what you said earlier about, you know, having the data where you want, when you went, how you want. What we're seeing to is we're asking people clients are saying, I don't want to have 10,000 people in Vegas. I want to do a hub and spoke process. So we're going to do one in India, two in Asia, pack three here. And that way you don't have to travel across the border across the pond. You can do it locally. And so we're finding more of that. Questions where let's diversify this across. We're not all flying to one place. Let's take the content to them. That's exactly what I was referring to earlier on in with not with planning forward and segmenting your audience. Exactly. So so guys, it sounds like storytelling has changed and evolved because we used to tell a story in a ballroom or in a convention center where we had a live audience. Now we have to tell a story for whatever the live audience may or may not be. We may have to tell a story that gets received on demand. Some stories are only really good live because we just announced that where we solved the the cure for the common cold and, you know, there's some, some things have a time and date stamp that just has to happen live. But you know, I have my final question and I'm going to throw it to you, rod first a year from now. So we're going to take you to 23. I'm going to put you on a spaceship, a time machine, and we're going to go one year ahead and it's going to be January 4th of 2023. And we're going to be reflecting on 2022. What's going to be different in the meeting events, business? What will we have learned and how will our lives be different? Gosh, Valerie, have that that crystal ball again, I had really her I think, you know, we've said it all before. You know, it's going to be shorter. It's going to be, you know, 1 to 1, not one to many. It's going to be about content. And, you know, you talked about sponsorship and trade shows. Now they want qualified buyers to come to their booth. They don't want people just wanting to get that little squishy toy. I think that's going to change. Also, I think you're going to see more of a targeted thing. And you also talked about storytelling and content. I think that'll be the biggest change. And we'll we'll all be storytelling more and more and more succinctly and back to the adage that you know, where you went when you went. We have to really personify our audiences and say, no Les is a reader. He loves to read things and Todd hates to read. He loves video and Rod doesn't like either one. He likes to interact with it and touch things. So we have to really know who our audience is, audience is, and then sculpt that content, that persona individually we can. So we're going to you're going to be like a clay and you're going to be sculpting the clay depending upon the audience, and you're going to be dishing out the right product to the right audience, and you're going to love you for it. Todd, take me into the future, take your time capsule, and let's zoom into 23 and tell me what's going to be different. I think we've really gone through the key learnings over the past almost two years. And I think to Rod's point and to our earlier points, there will be segmented audiences. I think it's going to be the value of the content and how and when it's delivered, served up, when they when the user or when the audience wants it. And I also believe that our clients and many clients at large, have learned about the efficacy and the multitude of tools to reach these people, and they're implementing them, and they will continue to implement them on a much more strategic level. And I think they'll look to, you know, Rod's, you know, and, and our company as well as partners in, in designing that strategy and how to share that content. And I also believe that culture plays a large part in this. And when there's a need to to ingratiate everybody into the brand's culture or the company's culture, they will continue to have these live events and people who feel the need to be a part of that, or to understand what the brand story is, will be there, live, or they will also find new ways to engage with the brand story. Rod, are you seeing the part of solutions that are being put forward is that those who want to attend, live will attend live and hear it live, and then there will be a studio set up in the venue as well for them to go and to deliver the audience, to deliver the message from a studio scenario as opposed to yeah, yeah. And some of our clients have asked to do with the TV studio there, so they're going to do the live, but go to the studio and then they're going to have a live like a, like a newscast almost. And I go, that's kind of interesting because there's there's content that the executives want to talk about. They don't have on the main stage. They want to really hone down into mobility or security. And so that was interesting for us to hear that they want to do the studio idea. Todd, is what you talked about. I think it also solves, actually, what we have found as a silver lining is that the virtual world has solved for the live events moving forward, that that key executives have seen the value in the brevity of their presentation. And so now moving forward, everything doesn't need to be shared in the live presentation. So, so are you saying we should sell our Caesar's stock right now and the wind stock because we're not going for the seven day journey or the five day journey if we go, it's a two day journey, a three day journey, and we're not going to have food and beverage. We're not going to have hotel room nights. And this is a permanent, you know, diversion for our industry. Totally great. I think that's why I said short or short or shorter. And, you know, I've got eight meetings today and they're all 40 minutes, you know, 50 minutes, 60 minutes. I'm going to bounce. You know, there's no way I could do that if I was live it. Same thing is true. People don't can't be out that long. They just cannot be. They don't want to be so. Well I think there's efficiencies also of keeping people in the field working as opposed to pulling them out for five days. There are other values and efficiencies that these corporations have experienced. I think that my personal opinion is we are used to seeing people together and the paradigm has shifted, and now we're used to seeing people on a virtual platform or on Zoom or Teams or WebEx. And now all of a sudden we're like, whether there's the need, can I convince people they need to be together? Could we do we need to be together to hold this kind of conversation, or can we just do it a quick impromptu, like Rod's at a 40 minute meeting and I don't have to leave the office. I don't have the travel time. I don't have to burn carbon in my gas car, or if I have an electric vehicle or I'm saying there's there's pragmatism. And one of the things we don't have more is time. So and you think about getting on a plane and flying to Hong Kong, that takes a lot of time. Well, Rod mentioned that the pragmatism of the Netflix culture, because it's not a Zoom culture. Zoom continues on and meetings go on as they normally would in a face to face basis. Zoom or Teams or anything. Any meeting like that will continue to just go off as opposed to, you know, purposely being very succinct in your messaging that's being broadcast. Do you know the platform that we have, which is subtle. You buy the license and you can get it for one year. So what you're saying about doing your program is I've got a platform and I've got a program that's going to run 12 months a year, and I have different things happening on the platform throughout the year. So your audience goes back to the platform, they get comfortable with it, and they they have their log in and they they're going back there. They're having the experience. And and it makes it easy for them. You've made it really simple. And that any you know, depending upon what platform someone uses. But that helps the the event have a much larger lifecycle for new employees that want to get familiar with the company for for employees that were out on vacation or holiday or couldn't attend. I think the content on demand is amazing. When you think about I'm trying to familiarize you with the products that we make, and you can just go to this site and we keep it up all year and we update it as, let's, let's just take I mean, we work for some of the large pharmaceutical companies that do vaccines. And as the information changes, you can update the site and it can evolve to your messaging, to your customer, to your or to your your sales person. And having that platform and having that license, what's even unique with ours is we sell a license to a production company, and the production company can use it for ten different events, or they can keep it up one event for the entire year. So I find it interesting. That's the new paradigm. So if you would if I would have told you two years ago. We're not going to be going back to doing a lot of live. We're going to do some live and we're going to keep it virtual for the whole year. So we have a way to keep sending messages to our audience. That is going to be the way we win and the one year long campaigns. I mean, that's that's exactly right. Like I said earlier, that's what we have to do. You can't say we blast people for four days in Vegas and go, that's good for a year. See you next year. That's not the case anymore. It's we've got to do that through out the year. So that's so so you can take a Z pack which is like 4 or 6 pills and get better. Right. Or, or you can take a one a day vitamin and it lasts throughout the whole year. And you could stay good the whole year. So it's a very interesting thing. Well guys I thank you. This is by the way, the second time both of you have been on my podcast. I think you guys are experts and subject matter experts for the event business. I think anyone who listens to this podcast will look and learn and understand a little bit of the future. I think you both for joining and I look forward to a healthy New Year, COVID free new year, a year where I get to bring big truckloads full of gear of LED screens. Whether it's building these portable studios that we're going to do live broadcasts or we're going to do a live audience, I look forward to that. Or doing a virtual platform on, you know, on one of our virtual tools that we offer. I so appreciate that. I look forward to seeing you in living color. And this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead, everybody. Good job. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks.