WHY WE HAVE THE NEED TO GATHER

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have two amazing guests. I have Norman Aamodt. He's the president and co-founder of the Event Strategy Group. And I also have Alan Phyll, and he's the associate dean, Academic Affairs for UCF, the University of Central Florida. He's also the visiting Orlando Endowed Chair of Tourism Marketing. Wow, that's a title. I like that, Alan. Guys, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining. Good to be here. Thank you, Les. So so guys, today our show is dedicated to the reason we all have events. Is this why do people have a need to gather. And we're going to talk about you know, that what does that help us and what does that provide for us as people. So I'm going to throw the first question to Alan. Alan, what magically happens when people get together in the same room in the same space, like kind of what happens and how does that change us or how does that make us feel? I think it's everything that we haven't had this year. It's there's a warmth, there's an energy, this connection. There's just life. And and I think we so many people take what are simple things for granted and we've all missed them. You know, looking at a screen, communicating, it's just not the same. There's not that energy. There's not that dynamism. It's just not there. Okay, I completely agree with you. Now, this same question to Norm and and Norm, I know you've done probably hundreds or thousands of shows in your career for life events. So you know what magically happens when people get together in the same room and space and what what what how does it feel or what could you convey that experience? It's funny, you know, we've talked about this a lot. It it's seeing each other, seeing each person's reaction. You know, you get a little bit of that on, you know, on the internet, you know with Zoom calls and whatever. But but being able to actually, you know, shake someone's hand, look them in the eye. See their body reaction. That's everything. And that's why we get together. So, so, Norm, let me ask this question because you were sitting at a general session for, you know, 5000 people. You know, if the presenter, if I'm the presenter and I'm standing on the stage, on the podium, if I don't have that audience, is my presentation a little bit different? You know, as a presenter to for me to deliver that presentation without an audience, wouldn't it be like a Broadway play without the audience? Would it feel different? Yeah, that's why Broadway plays on TV don't work. But but yeah, you have to have the audience. It's a reaction. They feed on it. Good speakers do. I mean, obviously there's various levels of speakers out there, but the good ones feed on the audience and get the, the the audience energized and, and, you know, committed to engaging in some way. Right. For sure. So so guys, I would add to what you guys have said and said, I think there's a certain energy that is created when you put people together, that kind of that level of combustion, when you you can feel like a room and it makes you feel alive when you're together with other people. And especially being that it's been probably a little while since you've been in a room with a lot of people, you know, since we've had that, that experience. So so this question throw it to Norm. How has the lack of gathering during COVID, you know, in this isolation impacted people? And, you know, obviously people are dying to get back to events and spaces and entertainment. But how do you think it's a impacted people individually? Well, you know, there's a couple of different perspectives I have on this. One is that, you know, I do think that there probably are some psychological ramifications to people being stuck in their basements, like I have for the last 12, 13 months. And I think that, you know, I think that's going to come out in time. And I'm no by no means a psychologist. But, you know, that's been a topic of our minds. But, you know, we were doing a study for a client recently where we talked about, you know, fear of missing out versus fear of going out. Right. And the client went out the next day on a LinkedIn page and put up, you know, where do you stand? Are you afraid of going out? Are you afraid of missing out? And it was, but it was a bit split 50/50. It was interesting. So I think I think time will tell. You know, I don't think we quite know yet because we're still just a little cooped up. I know where you are. Unless it's a little more open than where I am. But I'm looking forward to it. I can tell you that Florida is open, baby. Man. It is open and ready for business. Bring your shows here. I know a lot of corporations that were planning shows and other cities have diverted to Florida because it's just been open and less restrictive. And if someone's planning an event or a meeting and they have to make that level of commitment, they want to have a pretty good chance that we can get to the finish line. They can actually have an event. And in Florida that that has been the benefit of this place versus some other destinations. Yeah. Can I just throw in. You mentioned Broadway. Really interesting. Early on in the pandemic. Me and my wife, daughter, let's really make my daughter feel special. We got Disney Plus purely and simply because you can see Hamilton. Sure. We thought we were doing her. She's teenager. We thought we were doing a really big favor. She sang that it's not the same on TV. No, I've seen it both ways. Exactly. Because it's just not. And that that was a sort of 17 year old. It's not the same because you're not meeting the people. You're not bumping into people. It it it's a cliche, but the experience is just not the same. It's like a zoom meeting. It's just the small screen. Yeah. You know, and that's an adaptation. I think everybody's going to have to get used to. You know, I guess this might be a question down the road, but as we as, as virtual becomes part of live. Right. But yeah, it's the small screen, I think. I mean I have we have a big screen. I turned it up super loud. It still wasn't as good as it didn't matter how loud it was, it wasn't as good. I like that maybe it's the stereo system to the screen. We got to work on that. So. So this question goes back to Alan, the same thing. How do you feel in the psychology of people? The lack of gathering because of COVID has impacted people. You know, obviously you mentioned about Broadway, but I'm talking about in very general terms. And, you know, I know at the Rosen School, a lot of the education has been on online, and in some ways it works very, very well. But it's become very transactional in a sense. You do your class, you do your zoom, it's done when you're in person. There's the little anecdotes, there's the little discussions before the class, the the it's the sort of frivolous moments, the little few little sessions where you can open up. That's what you tend to remember. So you can deliver very, very effectively. And I would say I was thinking about this driving in the morning. I've had really good meetings online with people I know already. How many people have I actually met new this year and I probably haven't. So the joy of in-person meetings is that randomness, to some extent, of just meeting people at events, functions and what have you and all this online. So it does a very good job. But it's more it's more directed, it's more controlled that that's how I felt about it. I agree with your transactional comment. I think that's a that's a fantastic way of putting it live to in person. You have that commitment for being there. You know, right now I could very well be mowing my lawn versus talking to you guys, you know. But if I, you know, it's more corporate kind of event programs and stuff. You got on a plane, you went there, you booked an air, you know, and you're committed to being there. And I think that's that's part of the dynamic. So so guys you know it's interesting what you just shared. You know I think as people we naturally want to gather in groups. And I think there's an interesting thing I do a lot of traveling even through COVID. I have traveled and taken all the right precautions. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a person tell me you are the first person I have met since the pandemic. This has been the first meeting, and I have had a lot of those first meetings. And, you know, it's I think it's getting easier as people become more vaccinated for people to consider, to gather. And these are the kind of choices that people have to make. But I also think people are hitting this kind of like, look, I've been cooped up enough, I'm going out, I'll wear my mask or I'll take the right precautions, but I just need to go out from my own sanity. You know, that kind of thing that brings with it memories less. You remember those things that the the past year has really been a blur for many people. So things just happen. But you haven't got that real. Oh, I remember that event because the online, it all rolls into one. I think when you have people that gather, you can create special moments. That moment. And I think what you're talking about is when you see the interaction with other people and the nuances and the discussion, that's kind of the networking where you meet people and you learn from the people and you see different cultures and experiences, but it's very hard to create a ha moments on Microsoft Teams or Zoom or go to a meeting. I think I think it just feels different. And I think that's kind of what your guys are really describing is that feeling. So this brings me to my next question. This is to Norm, you know, how is it possible, you know, for audience engagement where when you're live versus your virtual, you know, it's very hard to measure engagement virtually. And that's one of the challenges. But, you know, I think with a live audience, you'd probably be able to see a higher level of engagement. But with virtual, it's a bigger challenge. How do you feel about, you know, presentations? And as we are now, you know, whether we gather together in a room or we gather together on a virtual call, you know, engagement is ultimately the direction what we're trying to get, get our message across, you know, how do you feel about, you know, achieving high level of engagement, whether it's on a virtual call or a live audience? I think a live audience is a lot easier. It's funny, you know, you know, with virtual events, you have now the capability of measuring everything everyone does. I mean, we can tell click through is I could follow someone when they registered and see everything they clicked on and and know anything. Is that truly engagement? I don't know, you know, I mean engagement to me and you and our and our kind of, you know, is committing and engaging and talking and being involved. Virtual events, don't you know, unless you have some scenario where you force everyone to actually what ends on and participate in some way, you don't have to engage. You can just sit and watch and take it in and take what you want in or not watch it all or whatever the case may be. Alive. Audience you do. It's just like you pointed out in the beginning, when you're in a big, you know, main stage and the the keynotes kicking it off and crowds amped up and the music is great and, you know, they are engaged, right? I think it's when we talk about doing a show and you have the lights going to black and you have the music starting, and then people have the anticipation something great is going to happen and kick it off. I think that you don't have that same feeling when you watch a virtual event I did on one. We ran and we were just praying that it actually worked. But there was there was the excitement that it actually worked when it ran. But no, you're right, you couldn't agree more. But the difference if it's live, it's teachings. Not the same as performing perhaps, but you smell the class. You just know. You walk in, you smell it, you just know the mood. And you can pivot very quickly because you know what you've prepared will not work on that day. On the technology front, you just go and deliver. I think you can. Allen, to your point, I think, you know, one thing we talked with clients about, people can actually tell when you're not live when you're live, you know, little red buttons on live what's really recorded or really live on, you know, on virtual events. And even that moves the bar just a little bit on the engagement model. But, you know, so much of the stuff is just recorded and everybody knows it is. So, you know, what's the point? Yeah. And in person do you think when, when, when they play back a virtual event that's been recorded and it says the live broadcast, do you think everybody knows most of that stuff is recorded. Yeah. Yes. That's why we all came up with a funny name called simulate that that floored me to start with, like, yeah, that's kind of live kind of not well, well, you know what? You know what you're describing. You're describing the fact that something can go wrong or something could be said, kind of like live television, where they bleep out words and stuff. You know, it's the failure opportunity, the opportunity to actually have something fail compared to something that's in the can. And all you're doing is you're playing back a clip. And the odds of failure when you're playing a clip back, it's more about whether the internet works and people are in their last mile of connection. It's funny you say opportunity to fail. It's true. So so guys let me ask this question. Number throws to Alan. Alan why will live events never go away. Because it's live events that provide the memories for a lifetime. Absolutely. I grew up in Britain in the 70s and 80s. I can recall all the concerts I went to. I can name probably 90%. You just never forget. Oh, wait, wait, are you saying you won't forget all the virtual Zoom calls and Teams calls you've had the same way. It's a different feeling. Almost instantly you forget because it's what I said earlier. They're transactional. You do the event, you move on. If they don't have the staying power of the actual events. I watch the concert online, just disappointed it wasn't live. That's only that's my reaction. It's my memory. That's funny. Well, you know, guys, when you're in a live room, you know, you can get the sense of the room from the people in it, how they're dressed and and, you know, is the room empty or is it full? Everything from the AV on the environment. And when you take all the components of lighting and sound and, and sometimes people even use smell in a room, you know, to try to create some experience that gives you that memory that you're talking about, Alan, at these rock concerts that they're doing, they're trying to create memories. Norm, do you think we're still trying to do that in corporate events, or do you think that's the reason live corporate events will continue to always matter? I think they'll never end. I think they're going to change a little bit because, you know, not wanting to go out. I think live events are going to scale back a little bit. But and I think virtual events are going to be here forever, and you're going to be broadcasting the people that don't want to go out. But, you know, live events rule. I mean, it's all there is to it. That's Alan, to your point. You know, every concert we've been to, we know. And in corporate world, we're trying to do a concert on a corporate budget, you know, or with less than, less than, you know, less than stellar talent. But come on, we have some good corporate presenters, that's all. My clients have great talent. So, Alan, how will event experiences in person change as a result of this last year? So, you know, if I go back to corporate events and gatherings that we've had in 2019 when the good times are rolling and everybody was having it, it was the bomb every day and and now we're going to start doing them as we return to live, which is starting. We have a show. You know, we strobes are starting to happen. We're starting to experience them. They might be slightly smaller, but what will be different. I think it's one all mentioned earlier. It's going to be that dreaded word hybrid. There's always going to be an option for those that don't want to participate. So whereas before they were perhaps the fringe, now it's just going to become a mainstay. So actually it doubles your workload. And this is what we're finding. You're planning your life, but you've also got to do virtual at the same time with no additional resource. So you're twice as busy to actually deliver two bits of the same event. So hybrid cliche, but to me that's the future, whether we like it or not. You know, some people are using the term blended hybrid norm. What are your thoughts on that comment about, you know, will in-person experiences be different and will they change as a result of the past year? I think in person is going to shrink for a short time. I think they're going to get big as well. But what everyone realized in this, in this virtual world was that, you know, the reach became so much greater. So the marketers are going to say, hey, we need to do both, right? So now we've got to figure out how to do both. And then we get into all the creative issues, like how do you shoot it? You know, because the virtual guy wants to see it on, you know, you're going to shoot for TV and the people in the room want you to shoot for a stadium. Right. And so now, you know, as far as we're concerned, we're going to have twice as much work. But the budget guys. Now, on the flip side of the coin, I see a big, big explosion here. I mean, because the budget guys are going we've saved so much money last year because we didn't do any events. Right. And then you don't have to travel, you don't have to go. And by the way, you know, we're going to give you four pittance for your live event. And and we'll put some money in virtual. There's a real, you know, collision here of for the with the marketers the finance and reality. So it's a ton of work. And you know, I'm kind of looking for personally I'm looking forward to to creating a hybrid model that for corporate that that is adaptable to different scenarios. So we'll see what happens. Do you know what I have heard. And we have spent a lot of time and energy focusing on every which way you can. Do, you know, two events, whether they're virtually or as much the same type of experience or they're going to be unique experiences. And the most popular experience that has been kind of designed in my mind is the idea that we're going to have a commentator like a Jimmy Fallon or like Jay Leno in a studio or stage, backstage or somewhere in the venue creating the virtual show for the remote audience, and they're going to interview people and create special content for that audience, and then they'll throw it to the live show when the keynote or the general session, or a very important moments, and they'll bring people in an interview them along the way, whether a three day live show has a three day virtual show or it might be a three day live show, has a one day virtual show. But we see that as an interesting model and that the biggest challenge is to get the exhibitors and the attendees, and to get a live exhibitor and a virtual attendee, and to chum up with ways to do all this stuff. But I think that's the path that we're moving on. So, guys, this is my last question. I'm going to throw it to you, Alan, first, and then I'll let Norm you bring us home. So Alan, what do you miss most about attending live gatherings, whether they're entertainment, corporate meetings, any type of event, what's the thing that you personally miss the most? Meeting new people. And it goes back to what I said earlier. The randomness of the in-person event, the bumping into the coffee, the short coffee discussion. That's something that just hasn't happened this year. We click on a minute before the meeting starts. We click off. As soon as it finishes, boom, you're done. So it's that random engagement and the energy that comes from that. That's what I've really missed. I need to meet new people and I meet new people face to face. It's coming back. I'm letting you know, Alan. I'm putting my stake in the ground and I work. We're coming to the ballroom. Okay, Norm, what do you miss the most about attending live gatherings and meetings? Entertainment. What's the thing that really is the biggest thing that you miss? Yeah, I'm not going to call that a whole lot different. I couldn't agree more. I, you know, I just want to meet people and have conversations. That's all I really want to do. Even if we get nothing done, it doesn't matter. You know, I want to have a cup of coffee, drink a beer, have a martini, hang out, go somewhere, eat a dinner, eat all that stuff. I don't even done it. You know, I went out to dinner last night for the first time in one year. So you need to move to Florida? Yeah. This is why we have, like, 1000 people a day moving here, you know? That's it. And I know I'm. You're in Pennsylvania. Well, guys, listen, I so appreciate both of you joining me today. I think you brought some interesting perspective to this world of live events and gatherings. And I look forward to meeting you all in person and doing shows in a ballroom, in a classroom, in a venue somewhere, and having fun and getting back to what we do and love. And we've done for many years. And this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead, guys. Good job. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you. Thank you, Les.