WHY WE LOVE THE EVENT INDUSTRY

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have two amazing guests. I have Steven, who's the executive producer and owner of Eighth Sea. I have Chris Drury, the chief creative officer and president of Drury Design. Guys, welcome to the show. Hey. Hey, Steven. Hey, Chris. Guys, this show today is dedicated to about how we have fun and all the things that we enjoy about doing in live events. I know the world's upside down, but the live event business is is still a lot of fun. And we get back to it. We're still going to be able to have some level of that fun. So I just want to start this by throwing it to Steven and say, Steven, tell me, what's the most fun thing about doing live events? Well, the most fun thing for me about doing corporate events, meetings and special events is the fact that there's one performance. There's no opportunity for error. It's got to be perfect. And I think you get the same kind of an energy than you would if you were doing a broadcast of the of a live show. The Grammy Awards, the MTV, it's live one shot you got. And I think that's really what gives me the, the excitement, the the energy of making sure it's right. You know, I, I know the one way you can get people to scream is by turning the lights out. And as the performance is starting, Chris, what is your thought on the most fun thing in doing live events? I think, you know, just amplify what Steven is saying. It is watching the faces of the audience as they see something that you've created. It could be something that's unexpected, a surprise. It could be something that we know we're hoping to get a specific reaction, whether it is, you know, crying, laughing, applauding, whatever it might be. And, you know, you work really, really hard on creating that moment. And for us, it's all about moments. And when you see that moment become realized, that's what's fun for me. That's what's rewarding for me, is, you know, working hard to get that moment that matters, to matter. That is interesting. The moment that matters to matter. You know, this is my 37th year in the business, and I started as a kid. And I'm curious, Steven, how did you get in this business and how did you end up being an executive producer putting on these big shows? Wow. Okay. We're going to go back in time a bit. Now we can go in the time machine. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. So I, I, I was going to NYU. I graduated with a with a degree in philosophy. Believe it or not, that sounds like a very good thing to have. Chris, if you were going to do, you know, try and see what matters. Matters. Philosophy. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, you graduate and everything is great. And then you begin to say, okay, I have a degree in philosophy. Now what? You know. So I've always been interested in theater. I had a cousin who was on, on Broadway in the 50s and 60s, and when I was little, my parents used to take me and I loved it. So I needed to get a job, and I found a job, believe it or not, at the New York Shakespeare Festival, which is now called the The Public Theater. Joseph Papp was still there, and I. And the only job I can get was as a receptionist in the casting department. It's a it's a foot in the door. It's a foot in the door. And I hated this job. I, I didn't like it because, you know, all the actors are coming to me with, with their photos and their resumes, and they're they're bringing me cookies and bottles of wine for me to get their, their resume on the top of the pile, you know, and, and then I hear in the meetings that they're never going to hire this person. They're never going to hire her. So I was at lunch one day in the cafeteria at the Public Theater, and I was kind of complaining about the job, which one should never do. And but at the end of lunch, somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, I hear you're unhappy in the casting department. I thought, oh God, I'm going to get fired. And this man said, who? I kind of knew. I didn't know his name. This man said, listen, we have a really big show. I need an assistant. Would you be willing to move from casting to to management? And I said, yes. Well, the show is A Chorus Line, and that opened up a lot of opportunity, a lot of, of of networking ability. When you're a part of a show of that scale or that popularity, even the lowest job, everybody wants to know you and be your friend. You could definitely deploy some of your philosophy degree. Indeed, indeed. Absolutely. So. So, Chris, how did you get in this business? And I know you for many, many, many years. So. So tell us how you got in the business. I was a creative writing major in college. As an undergrad. I also had done creative writing, a lot of audio production, radio drama. So I knew how to write and I knew how to produce and I knew how to create. And two professors of mine started at that point, a multi-media which was kind of program slide business, and their first job was doing a kind of a museum show for Exxon. And so I was part of that team because I actually knew how to produce and create things like audio tracks and at that point, program slideshows. And they said, oh, this is going to be a great business, but you need academic credibility because I only was I was only a grad student from, you know, a college. So they said, okay, fine. So I went to Boston University, I got my Master of Science degree in broadcasting and film, and by the time I finished doing that, that company had gone out of business. So I came back to New York and started looking for work. But because I knew I had to do that kind of work, you know, creating audio programming a bit. Very few people knew how to do that kind of stuff. I was lucky enough to get a job with Warren Doswell, who was, you know, kind of one of the icons of the industry early on and work with Warren, did some work with John and then, you know, got a job at Jim Saint Andrea and and it all took off from there. You know, I started on more like the technical and programming side, but I was always a creative guy, and I used the technical to actually make creative things happen. That is using the technical to make creative things happen. I like that. So. So Stephen, what's the most challenging part of this business? If you're going to produce events, you're going to have audiences. What's the most challenging part? Good question. I you know, I think more and more I'm seeing this. I think the most challenging part for me is getting the client to determine, to focus in on what the real objective is. They may have ideas of what they think it should be, of what they want to do. A lot of times they'll come to you and say, you know, you know, I want to have a balloon drop. I'm making that up. But but I want to do this, you know, but there's no understanding as to whether or not the technologies that they want to use is the right way to deliver the message that they want to, to deliver. So. So I guess the most challenging part is getting them to focus in and making sure they understand how certain things are going to read to an audience. They may not read the way they think they are. So yeah, so so I think that's the challenging part. Okay. And Chris, what is your thought on this. And, and you've done shows from 500 to 50,000. You know, what do you think is the hardest part. I'd actually amplify a bit what Steven said. It's trying to communicate to clients what what exactly are they trying to accomplish with with the audience and their message. And then it's kind of trying to connect reality to that. So in other words, they may have a message that they're trying to communicate. They may have a date that they need to do it. They have an audience that they're trying to communicate that message to, and they may have a budget very rarely to all of those things align. So I find that that the difficult part is trying to get all of those points to intersect, where we can make the message right for a specific audience for the budget that we that they have in the time frame that they've given us. When we do that, it's magical. But it's also oftentimes very, very difficult to do because one of those things typically is not in alignment. Got it. It's good to be in alignment. So so Steven, what is the most memorable show that you've worked on that you're super proud of? You're talking about in the corporate world and the special events world? It could be in any world. It can be a theater, it can be the corporate world. It could be. It could be one you did when you were a high school person, you know, what are you out of in our in our industry, so to speak, of what you've worked on. Yeah. You know, it may not it may not necessarily be the biggest show with the biggest budget. A few years ago, I produced one at one of the arenas in in Vegas, and we had these 12 huge screens with 10,000ft² of projection surface, 96 million pixels as a canvas and three three layers. So, yes, grand and big and and the spectacle, the spectacle of it was really, really cool. But some of the things that I really like are the ones that have more of an ability to move the audience, not necessarily with sparkle, with the with the spectacle, but with some kind of an emotion, as Chris mentioned, you know, getting them to feel something, whether it's they're happy or they're sad or, you know, I'll go back to some of my theater stuff in the past, I think one of my favorite things that that, that I've done was producing the Radio City Christmas show for 12, 12 years. There was nothing like for whatever it was, there was nothing like watching the faces of the audiences, especially the kids, and seeing that that wonder. That was an amazing experience. Cool. So. So, Chris, what are you most memorable show you're most proud of? And and I probably was there with you, you know, last, you're probably thinking, oh, it had to be when we when we did World of Watson with a giant festival and all that. Or you might be thinking, when we move think to San Francisco, we had 27,000 people in San Francisco. But it's neither of those. I'm going to tell you two of my favorite shows. One was a pharmaceutical launch for for a product that was for Alzheimer's disease, and it was an emotional launch. And, and the story was told by the caregivers who were dealing with their spouses, who were suffering through Alzheimer's, and how little time they had with those with their spouses, and the impact that this product that we were launching had on giving them some of time back to them that they wouldn't have had without it. And we had Cyndi Lauper come in and some some time after time, and this story just being told by those that are impacted was really, really emotional. The second one, which you're also not going to believe was a very small two projector slideshow that I did for National Geographic years and years ago, where every single moment, every single word, every single image, I took extreme care and crafting and I just, I just there was so much effort that went into it. I was so proud of it, even though it was just two projector slideshow in the narrative that it told and the impact that it had emotionally on people. So those two were my favorites last. The big ones are great. I love them, and you love them too. But those two just moved me less. What what what Chris is saying is so, so true. And what I think he's saying, and I'm saying to, is that the most important thing is to tell a story. You have to have that story, and that story has an arc, and that's going to move the, the, the audience and also give us the creators, the satisfaction in being able to tell that story to the best possible way. You know, what's interesting about the storytelling concept is, you know, I'm a big technology person. I'm always promoting whatever the coolest technology is, but sometimes telling a story, sometimes the best storytelling is without technology. And I'm just curious if, Chris, maybe you could opine about that, because sometimes people get lost in the technology and they forget the story. Yeah, I would agree with that. Lest I start with story first, always story first, then I think about what's the best way to tell that story. And that's when my, my tech background comes into it and my love of tech because, you know, I love that comes into it where it could be how we utilize the tech to be able to do it. And and oftentimes, again, back to that one story with the Alzheimer's patient, how we utilize the imagery behind that, that those caregivers to amplify what the story is. The live orchestra that played underscores amplify that story, right. That, to me, was using technology to amplify the story, to enhance the story. And I think that, you know, ultimately, you start with the story. You find the best technology to help amplify and enhance that story. You use it in a way that makes sense to many people. I think use technology for technology's sake, and it leaves. It often leaves the audience empty. If you start with a great story and use the technology, I think you see examples of that where it really enhances it. Evan Hansen, for instance, it enhances the story. I've seen other shows where it's it's just absolutely not. It overpowers the story. That's right. Absolutely. You know, you know, it's interesting. So technology seems to be the supporting cast of whatever the main characters are. So I'm going to throw this to Steven. How much of what you produce, you know, the type of shows get your heart pumping and, and creates a sense of spectacle because, you know, not all shows have that spectacle. And, and the energy associated with, you know, when you're, you're going into something and especially maybe when the curtain is about to open for some was a Broadway show or it's a big corporate event. So, you know, how much of what do you get to do a lot of spectacle. And if you do and whatever elements you do, does that provide you some happiness? Well, you know, there's always an opportunity for spectacle. As Chris said, if if you want to force the spectacle in, you can do it. But I, I think that the most important part of a project for me, with regard to power and emotion is what I would call the the, the opening experience. And I believe and I think Chris... Chris does too that, that, that you have to find a way to take the audience off, off guard. You've got to make them understand that something very unique is going to happen. Now, you know how Prince years ago said, said to me, if you don't get the audience in the first four minutes, you'll never get get them back. And that has stuck with me. And so I always try to make the opening moments of something really a powerful message to set the tone for what's going to come. Yeah, I would agree, Steven, I think that I don't know if spectacle is the right word because it's grabbing the audience and in some cases, you know, less. We've done a lot of spectacle in the past, and we've used everything to do it with fireworks and marching bands and gospel choirs and and all kinds of technology. But but it's like Steven said, it's grabbing the audience. And actually something Steven and I had done together years ago started with a solo cellist on a stage with just light and a cello and some simple imagery. And that power? Yeah, power. It was powerful. I wouldn't call it spectacle. It was just powerful. And I think what I've seen, Les, to be honest with you, is spectacle was much bigger in our industry years ago. And I think today people really want something that's more meaningful. I think our, our clients today really have matured and they want something more than spectacle. They want something that really is going to amplify or reinforce their message. And it's, you know, it can be big and it can be exciting, but if it's not rooted in their message, who cares? They just don't care about it. And I think in the old days, it was okay to bring something in just for the pure entertainment value, just for the spectacle within a meeting itself. And I don't think that that flies quite the same today. Very, very interesting what you guys are saying. So take me into the future, Steven. The future of the events business and what will be our new normal. Wow, that's a loaded question. Look, I. I'm optimistic in this sense. If you look back at history in 1918, 19 and 20, there was a Spanish flu and the world shut down and the theater shut down and the restaurant shut down and the nightclubs, everything was closed. And once that pandemic eased up and passed, guess what? Everything came back and in some cases, bigger and better. The Roaring 20s, bigger and better. So I believe that we're right now in what you may you may want to call purgatory dark limbo. I was going to say so. You're absolutely right. And until a, a, a therapeutic or a vaccine is identified and then as we've been discussing, it's not only identified, it's got to get into the population. So so that the people feel safe. I think we're going to be in that limbo. And unfortunately I think it's going to take a while. I think it may be 12 or 18 months or so before that happens. I think we just have to be patient and and see how it goes. So. So, Chris, what size show are we going back to at some time in the future? Now you can apply with your crystal ball. But you know what I think here's here's where it's going. Shows will never be the same. And that doesn't mean that it's bad. What's what happened and what we're in the process of of now is this digital reinvention. Right. So we're all now creating digital events. We've done, I don't know, over 100 sessions since March. And the bottom line is we're all working and playing in this digital in the digital domain. And as we move closer to hybrid the digital, we're still going to be digital led and digital first even in the hybrid world. But as we come out of it, you're going to not see digital go away. You're going to see parallel events. You're going to see that that a live event and a digital event will happen at the same time. They're going to offer completely unique experiences, and you may want to participate in the digital event and not be at the live event, or you want to be at the live event, and you don't necessarily want to participate in a digital event. And there will be intersection points. But but I'll tell you this, every every client that I've spoken to and their audiences want life. They want to go back to life. They will but realize this, that digital is clearly going to be part of the experience as we move forward. And I don't think it will ever change. So we need to pay as much attention to the virtual end, the digital end as we do the live. And it's just as we move back into it. I think you're going to see smaller events. I think you're going to see them grow. I think you're going to see linked events. We're global now, by the way. This forced everybody to become global. The rug was pulled out and everybody said they were global companies. They weren't. They did a live stream and they hope people watched. But guess what happened when when this when this digital world happened all of a sudden you had hoping for 25,000 people. You ended up with 115 and a lot of them were from all over the world. So now you have a global audience that you never really had before, but now you have to pay attention to a global audience. You have to think global. You have to create global. You have to you have to do things very, very differently. So I think you're going to see it and we'll see what Steven thinks. You're going to see linked global events. You're going to see digital as a strong component of that. And everybody's looking for the Holy Grail, which is, you know, how do we really make it more engaging than it is now? Steven, do you have any comment on the engagement that Chris referred to or the the Holy Grail? Not much more for me to add. Chris said it exactly right. I think people are dying to to, to get back to live. There's there's a humanness that you get from that live event that you can't get in a virtual world, but it is going to be combined from, from, from now on. And Chris said it far, far better than I could. It's all good. So guys, this is my last question. And boy, you guys have both been so insightful today. So I'm going to throw this to Steven. My last question. If somebody was going to school whether they're high school or college technical school, what would you do to encourage them. What would you tell them about our industry realizing it's virtual now, it's going to go back to live. What would you encourage them to do? And the path for some future person that wants to be in the business? Yeah. You know, when I speak to a lot of younger people, a lot of them don't don't even think that this this business exists. If they're going to college and they're studying the arts there, they want to be in production, but they're thinking of theater. I think they need to get an understanding about how powerful the business is, how exciting the business is. And what I love about it is that I'm able to well, first, you think in a very different way in the events world than in a theater world, but, but, but you're able to combine the, the, the, the creative teams of theater and live to, to make a special event happen. What I would advise kids and I do it, is to tell them to not necessarily go out and look for the job you want. Take the job that you're offered because one you don't know what you're going to learn from there, and two, you don't know who you're going to meet from that job. Look at my experience with A Chorus Line. So, you know, try to learn as much as you can and meet as many people, people the, the, the choreographer on a on a corporate show, you may, may meet now might be a director of a Broadway show in a year. So just take the work, learn and be as nice as possible. Chris, your thoughts on what you would tell someone? An aspiring student? Yeah, I exactly what Steven said. And, you know, back to the beginning, when I came back after graduate school and I really wanted to come back and direct film, realized that it was way too narrow a path. And what I love about this business is you're not you're not put into small boxes. You're not. You don't have to take a narrow path. So I could do things when in the beginning I could program, I could do audio, I could write, I could stage manager, I could do anything and what I would. And that's what I loved about this business to begin with. You could. You could try anything. You could. You could be what you wanted to be. So I would recommend and I do to kids if they're coming into this business. I agree with Steven. Find a way in. Try everything. Discover what your passion is. I find what I love about our industry in this business is this business is really diverse and it's really inclusive, and people are really willing to, to, to help in any way they can. So if you can get in, like Steven says, if you can get in and you get a job, any job, keep your eyes open, keep your ears open, try everything until you can discover what your passion is. And when you do, you actually have the ability in this industry to go pursue it. It's up to you, and there's nothing that would stop you from being usually successful. If you put in the time and you put in the effort. Guys, the wisdom between the two of you is infinite. And I think anyone listening to hear your thoughts on our industry and you know, what the the elements of it and what makes it great and pursuing your passion is simply the best advice I've heard. And I want to thank Steven and Chris for joining me today. You both are amazing people. The types of shows that I've gotten to work on with you over the many years are simply just fascinating as well as rewarding. And I learned a little bit about storytelling today. And you guys take care, stay safe, healthy, and we will go back to some form of our new worlds as the as the vaccine comes out. And thanks again for joining today. And this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Thanks. Thank you, Les.